- cross-posted to:
- youshouldknow@lemmy.world
- asklemmy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- youshouldknow@lemmy.world
- asklemmy@lemmy.ml
An open source project the size of Lemmy needs constant work to manage the project, implement new features and fix bugs. Dessalines and I work full-time on these tasks and more. As there is no advertising or tracking, all of our work is funded through donations. Unfortunately the amount of donations has decreased to only 2000€ per month. This leaves only 1000€ per developer, which is not enough to pay my bills. With the current level of donations I will be forced to find another job, and drastically reduce my contributions to Lemmy. To avoid this outcome and keep Lemmy growing, I ask you to please make a recurring donation:
Liberapay | Ko-fi | Patreon | OpenCollective | Crypto
If you want more information before donating, consider the comparison with Reddit. It began as startup funded by rich investors. The site is managed by corporate executives who over time have become more and more disconnected from normal users. Their main goal is to make investors happy and to make a profit. This leads to user-hostile decisions like firing the employee responsible for AMAs, blocking third-party apps and more. As Reddit is a single website under a single authority, it means all users need to follow the same rules, including ridiculous ones like censoring the name “Luigi”.
Lemmy represents a new type of social media which is the complete opposite of Reddit. It is split across many different websites, each with its own rules, and managed by normal people who actually care about the users. There is no company and no profit motive. Much of the work is carried out by volunteer admins, mods and posters, who contribute out of enthusiasm and not for money. For users this is great as there is no advertising nor tracking, and no chance of takeover by a billionaire. Additionally there are no builtin political or ideological restrictions. You can use the software for any purpose you like, add your own restrictions or scrutinize its inner workings. Lemmy truly belongs to everyone.
Dessalines and I work fulltime on Lemmy to keep up with all the feature requests, bug reports and development work. Even so there is barely enough time in the day, and no time for a second job. Previously I sometimes had to rely on my personal savings to keep developing Lemmy for you, but that can’t go on forever. We partly rely on NLnet for funding, but they only pay for development of new features, and not for mandatory maintenance work. The only available option are user donations. To keep it viable donations need to reach a minimum of 5000€ per month, resulting in a modest salary of 2500€ per developer. If that goal is reached Dessalines and I can stop worrying about money, and fully focus on improving the software for the benefit of all users and instances. Please use the link below to see current donation stats and make your contribution! We especially rely on recurring donations to secure the long-term development and make Lemmy the best it can be.
Update: For those of you who want to support Lemmy development without financing the hosting of lemmy.ml, know that the hosting is paid exclusively through OpenCollective. You can see the payment details at this link. This means donations through all other platforms (Liberapay, Ko-fi, Patreon, Crypto) are exclusively for Lemmy development, and not a single cent goes to lemmy.ml hosting.
Who are the developers and what instance are they affiliated with?
Nutomic and Dessalines, and lemmy.ml
From the post
Dessalines and I work fulltime on Lemmy to keep up with all the feature requests, bug reports and development work.
So @nutomic@lemmy.ml and @dessalines@lemmy.ml are the developers
You can see from their usernames, they are primarily associated with lemmy.ml, which they are the admins of
As far as I understand it, the development team of Lemmy is bigger than that, but nutomic and dessalines as the founders and paid to develop lemmy full-time of course are the most important ones.
@sleeplessone@lemmy.ml is a maintainer of lemmy I think and
@dullbananas@lemmy.ca is a maintainer of lemmy backend?
Not sure about the status of flamingos and phiresky who also contribute to the codebase and were part of the recent AMA
Flamingos is a much loved admin of feddit.uk ☺️
This update is what made me setup a recurring donation.
Thanks :)
But I want to support lemmy.ml
Then you can donate via Opencollective. But honestly it doesnt matter, because lemmy.ml hosting is already covered, and is very cheap compared to developer salaries.
I appreciate the transparency! :)
What if I’m so propagandized by American technofascist social media that I am incapable of believing Marxists would be able to make and maintain a project of this size? How do I donate to the real devs? (/j)
Real question: assuming I’m basically broke, which is more helpful to y’all: a yearly dono of $100 or a weekly pledge of $2?
I advise you to consider the weekly pledge over the one time donation. It would be a better course of action as it might help them plan ahead.
Also, I’m a caveman, so I would advise against following my advice
The real devs are locked into a server room with appropriate supplies of food and caffeine. So dont worry about them.
Yearly or weekly doesnt make a big difference so whatever works for you. Depending on the platform small donations may have higher fees though.
This should probably be documented on the open collective page.
Right, updated.
Sent my money in. Thanks for what you do, brother.
I signed up for a medium donation.
While I don’t agree with some things happening on .ml We should not discard imperfect allies. Thank you devs for the great work you’re doing.
I personally block hexbear, and de facto ignore lemmy.ml because I find it to be a hive of vitriol and unproductive toxic behaviour, but I still signed up to donate because imho, lemmy’s open and decentralized nature make it fundamentally valuable and a worthwhile piece of societal infrastructure.
But please don’t abuse our trust.
How long has it been since you’ve thought of the Zootopia Abortion Comic?
Anyway, I’ll happily keep paying the devs.
I love lemmy the project. But there has too much political arguments in some communities and they will hate you if you aren’t 100% agree with them. Even the post and the group/community are not political, comments will turn it to political. I am kind of tired(although I know some ppl are thrilled with political arguments). There is not much the devs can do, but the content does affect the user experience quite a lot.
Nevertheless, thanks for all the hard work, nutomic and dessalines. I will donate.
Fully agree that theres too much politics. Like you say too often about attacking some kind of enemy rather trying to understand other perspectives. For better or for worse, those seem to be the types of people more likely to use a new platform like Lemmy. Hopefully in the future they will also get tired of this stuff.
Unfortunately Reddit and their mods/admins behaviour over the years show that the opposite will happen. When the Lemmy mods are already so militantly anti-open discussion and authoritarian, they’re not going to soften up - they’ll go even further towards the dictatorship they clearly desire.
I’d love to donate or even start contributing towards the code myself, but the current environment that is being fostered on the big “default” communities and instances is like Reddit on steroids, just speedrunning to the end game of mass bans and mod abuse - and I don’t envision myself wanting to be a part of that for too long. I wiped and deleted by 15+ year old reddit account because of what it had turned into.
I don’t know the solution, but something needs to be done at a system level to give users a way to remove mods and change how communities are managed.
I feel sorry for your situation. But at least in lemmy the dev are willing to try to resolve this problem. Low chance is still better than zero chance.
Here is an wild idea. Since a few communities are so divided and clearly they only have a good time when they talk to ppl exactly like them. Flame war happens when two groups of hardcore opposed users argue. Since normal users won’t have all days to argue with either side, if one side leaves, the wars is ended.
So instead of banning users by admin or blocking one users each time by users. Can we have allow users to create their own public group (or a gang)? Users can join any groups. Instead of blocking one user, users can simply block the whole group. Posts and comments will be hided if blocking.
Advantages:
- No banning is needed means admin’s time and gang members’ time can be saved.
- finally no one disagree with those gangs members anymore, so I guess they’re happy
- instead of using time from admin and uninvolved users, users who frequently involved controversial topics everywhere should spend their own time to create a group for staying in their comfort zone.
- uninvolved users don’t have to read all those flame war
Disadvantages:
- those gangs become more extreme cuz they miss the opportunity to understand each other
- dev have to do more work
- server may have more load
- some users might say those gangs should host their own instances
Ps: I don’t use the term community because our board is also called community. I don’t want to mix them up. May be i should call it users group, but I am too lazy. I do agree better word should be used.
I don’t know the solution, but something needs to be done at a system level to give users a way to remove mods and change how communities are managed.
Maybe just start an instance where politics are banned?
Are any of the posted platforms better or worse to subscribe to? Patreon is easiest but if there are any percentages taken out etc etc I’ll switch it up
ko-fi does not take a platform fee (unless they specifically enabled giving away 5% to ko-fi but I don’t think they did)
Both Liberapay and Ko-fi have no fees (besides payment processing). Liberapay has the additional advantage of being open source, and automatically splitting payments between Dessalines and me.
liberapay is probably the best. For payments processed there by stripe the fee avg is around 3.1%, and there’s no additional fee to the platform. Patreon ends up being like 15-20% iirc when you add up all fees. Unsure about opencollective or ko-fi
Jeez thats a huge cut from Patreon what the hell! Will definitely switch
Just did the $5 donation on patreon. It’s on a lot but I hope it helps, I might not agree with everything the founders believe in but I really appreciate this open sourced community and the ideas and conversations I’ve had on it. It’s definitely worth supporting
Thank you, all donations help :)
From what I can see, what’s stopping a lot of people donating is the fact that donations cover .ml as well, I personally think this is a non-issue, because .ml doesn’t cost much to run (from what I can see).
Would it be possible to split donations for lemmy development, and donations for lemmy.ml?
There’s also the fact that Nutomic is a known transphobe, and donating to lemmy’s development means supporting said transphobe. If we could get non-problematic devs, that would be ideal. But until then, the only real options are “use Reddit” or “support a tankie transphobe.” And neither is a great choice.
piefed.social fedia.io joinmbin.org join.piefed.social
tAnKiE
You are on a “tankie” website made for and by tankies
I’m specifically not on a tankie website; I’m on an anarchist website that is federated with a tankie website. The largest reason most instances still federate with .ml is because it’s the only instance that the devs will use. So if you want to actively follow Lemmy’s development, (and despite the devs’ problematic attitudes, I think everyone here wants Lemmy to succeed), you need to federate with .ml.
You are sitting on lemmy complaining about lemmy devs being tankies so you won’t donate to them but you want them to succeed but you hate them but you love them
I love what they’ve made but their views are absolutely abhorrent. Having said that I am willing to donate as the project overall is a beautiful piece of software & I’ve donated a handful of times already but I will seethe that a single penny goes to keeping .ml online.
You can want a project to succeed, even if you don’t like the person in charge of the project.
Its not that hard. If hitler (or name your villain) made and kept improving a cancer drug and nobody else is taking up the mantle, you’d probably care more about keeping people alive (or in this case off of heroinbook and reddit) than the person.
Lets be honest, 2500 per dev is a joke. They could be making three times that if they just accepted one of the offers that are thrown at them BECAUSE of lemmy and other projects showing their skills.
Barely keeping them alive is not helping their views or anything they care about besides lemmy being improved. For transparency reasons I too would prefer to have separate fundraiser for ml directed at ml users but thats a different topic.
Another important point is that reddit stans would want you to hate tankies grrr and not donate so lemmy goes away as one of the few alternatives. A alone would fund these two if I could just because fuck reddit.
what does a cia-backed color revolution in hungary 70 years ago have to do with lemmy?
no, no no they mean the modern definition of tankie: Someone left of Kamala Harris (everyone knows she’s as left as it gets before you horseshoe theory around and become red fash)
Yes it would be possible. The question is if people would really be more willing to donate in that case, or if they would look for a different excuse instead.
There are obviously other good reasons for not donating or at least thinking hard about it first.
But removing one bad thing surely couldn’t hurt.
Actually lemmy.ml hosting is only funded via Opencollective, so if you donate through any other platform the money goes entirely to developer salaries.
If that is the case you should make it clear in the description what exactly is being funded on each platform.
I already updated the description on Opencollective to mention this. Other platforms only cover developer salaries like the descriptions say.
I don’t think it was updated when I looked earlier but it looks good now 👍
You might consider adding to the descriptions on the other platforms that .ml is explicitly excluded considering that many seem to be confused but that’s up to you.
That seems unnecessary because most people dont care. There is a vocal minority which keeps complaining but they dont need to be appeased any more.
Took me a moment to understand the point. But I agree, from a transparency view alone. The users of .ml should be funding .ml, not the people trying to keep lemmy as a project alive. Generally, large insrances should be funding the project, not the project those instances imo.
Lemmy.ml is the dev test instance, for one, and for two, the donations are to pay the devs wages, which allows them to dev Lemmy full time. You’re essentially saying you want to control what the devs of Lemmy can pay for with their salaries at that point.
What’s wrong with dev.lemmy.ml enterprise.lemmy.ml and ds9.lemmy.ml?
That aside, I think that there would be enough people who would donate to .ml, I read somewhere that it was €30/month, which doesn’t seem like much.
The fact that there aren’t a lot of users to give feedback. Lemmy.ml is like a public beta channel, in a way.
true, but if it gets more people to donate, I think it would help.
We always put out calls before (major) releases, but very few ppl actually help test. This means a lot of bugs only get spotted when more eyes see them in production.
All of these issues are solved in the corporate world by paying quality assurance / testing teams, but open source projects don’t have those resources.
We always put out calls before (major) releases, but very few ppl actually help test
Where are those posted? I think I always miss them, happy to help with testing before major releases
In the matrix dev chats, but we could also post them elsewhere.
lemmy.ml is run by the developers?
Kinda but the overlap between lemmy ml admin/mod team and lemmy developers is not 100%
Yes, it’s the “original” instance
Do you have a preference as to which platform the donation is done through?
Liberapay is preferable as it has low fees and is also open source.
Thank you, Liberapay it is. Keep up the good work!
Have you considered applying for a FUTO grant?
I actually got in contact with them yesterday, will probably have a meeting soon to discuss how we can work together with them.
I don’t really mind which way I donate but I want to ensure I donate by giving the most money to lemmy and not to whatever platform is hosting it.
While I am not particularly interested in setting up crypto, aside from that which platform would you prefer I donated from?
Liberapay is the best option, because it doesnt take any fees beyond payment processing, and its also open source. Thanks for donating!
Literally all we need is everyone to kick in a couple bucks a month and I think everything would be in great shape. I think the user base is like 65k+ users currently?
Around 50k, it went back down from the recent high of 57k.
This is really interesting. Thanks for this link (and for all the work you do on Lemmy in general).
Just started a small monthly donation. I’ll up it, if I use lemmy more, but I appreciate its existence. Thank you Devs for your contribution.
Youre welcome!