As if photo manipulation hasn’t been around in better forms for decades…?
Not as easy and accessible as now.
Before, I don’t even know how to erase a pimple on my selfies. Now I can easily generate picture of a photorealistic cat girl riding a bike naked on Time square that could fool any elders in my neighborhood.
Accessibility makes it the opposite of convincing.
And a skillfully modified photo is going to convince just about anyone.
There are some really subtle details experts can look at to detect Photoshop work, such as patterns in the JPEG artifacts than can indicate a photo was reocmpressed multiple times in some areas but not others.
It is the quantity of fakes because of the easy process which is going to be the problem. Fake pictures will very soon outnumber real, and the amount of them will still kerp grjwing exponentially even after that.
Photography manipulation existed almost since the invention of photography. It was only much harder see the famous photo edition https://www.history.com/news/josef-stalin-great-purge-photo-retouching
Great point. But tools that make it so a 10 year old can manipulate photos even better than your example in several minutes, are in fact fairly new.
Hell they can generate photos that fool 70% of people on Facebook, though now that I say that, maybe that bar isn’t too high…
Okay so it’s the verge so I’m not exactly expecting much but seriously?
No one on Earth today has ever lived in a world where photographs were not the linchpin of social consensus
People have been faking photographs basically since day one, with techniques like double exposure. Also even more sophisticated photo manipulation has been possible with Photoshop which has existed for decades.
There’s a photo of me taken in the '90s on thunder mountain at Disneyland which has been edited to look like I’m actually on a mountainside rather than in a theme park. I think we can deal with fakeable photographs the only difference here is the process is automatable which honestly doesn’t make even the blindest bit of difference. It’s quicker but so what.
It used to take professionals or serious hobbyists to make something fake look believable. Now it’s at the tip of everyone’s fingers. Fake photos were already a smaller issue, but this very well could become a tidal wave of fakes trying to grab attention.
Think about how many scammers there are. Think about how many horny boys there are. Think about how much online political fuckery goes around these days. When believable photographs of whatever you want people to believe are at the tips of anyone’s fingers, it’s very, very easy to start a wildfire of misinformation. And think about the young girls being tormented in middle school and high school. And all the scammable old people. And all the fascists willing to use any tool at their disposal to sow discord and hatred.
It’s not a nothing problem. It could very well become a torrent of lies.
Come on, science fiction had similar technologies to fake things since 40s. The writing was on the wall.
It didn’t really work outside of authors’ and readers’ imagination, but the only reason we’re scared is that we’re forced into centralized hierarchical systems in which it’s harder to defend.
I mean, sure, deception as a concept has always been around. But let me just put it this way:
How many more scam emails, scam texts, how many more data leaks, conspiracy theories are going around these days? All of these things always existed. The Nigerian prince scam. That one’s been around forever. The door-to-door salesman, that one’s been around forever. The snake oil charlatan. Scams and lies have been around since we could communicate, probably. But never before have we been bombarded with them like we are today. Before, it took a guy with a rotary phone and a phone book a full day to try to scam 100 people. Now 100 calls go out all at once with a different fake phone number for each, spoofed to be as close to the recipient’s number as possible.
The effort input needed for these things have dropped significantly with new tech, and their prevalence skyrocketed. It’s not a new story. In fact, it’s a very old story. It’s just more common and much easier, so it’s taken up by more people because it’s more lucrative. Why spend all of your time trying to hack a campaign’s email (which is also still happening), when you can make one suspicious picture and get all of your bots to get it trending so your company gets billions in tax breaks? All at the click of a button. Then send your spam bots to call millions of people a day to spread the information about the picture, and your email bots to spam the picture to every Facebook conspiracy theorist. All in a matter of seconds.
This isn’t a matter of “what if.” This is kind of just the law of scams. It will be used for evil. No question. And it does have an effect. You can’t have random numbers call you anymore without you immediately expecting their spam. Soon, you won’t be able to get photo evidence without immediately thinking it might be fake. Water flows downhill, new tech gets used for scams. The like a law of nature at this point.
Wise people still teach their children (and remind themselves) not to talk to strangers, say “no” if not sure, mind their own business because their attention and energy are not infinite, and trust only family.
You can’t have random numbers call you anymore without you immediately expecting their spam.
You’d be wary of people who are not your neighbors in the Middle Ages. Were you a nobleman, you’d still mostly talk to people you knew since childhood, yours or theirs, and the rare new faces would be people you’ve heard about since childhood, yours or theirs.
It’s not a new danger. Even qualitatively - the change for a villager coming to a big city during the industrial revolution was much more radical.
That’s exactly what I meant when I said:
It’s not a new story. In fact, it’s a very old story.
And you just kinda proved my point. As time has gone on, the great of deception has grown with new technology. This is just the latest iteration. And every new one has expanded the chances/danger exponentially.
What I really meant is that humanity is a self-regulating system. This disturbance will be regulated just as well as those other ones.
The unpleasant thing is that the example I’ve given involved lots of new power being created, while our disturbance is the opposite - people\forces already having power desperately trying to preserve their relative weight, at the cost of preventing new power being created.
But we will see if they’ll succeed. After all, the very reason they are doing this is because they can’t create power, and that is because their institutional understanding is lacking, and this in turn means that they are not in fact doing what they think they are. And by forcing those who can create power to the fringe, they are accelerating the tendencies for relief.
I don’t think this is the power redistribution you’re implying it is. I’m not actually sure what you mean by that. The power to create truths? To spread propaganda? I can’t think of any other power this tech would redistribute. Would you mind explaining?
It used to take professionals or serious hobbyists to make something fake look believable.
Your point being…?
I mean…we can all see those are inanimate, right? But that doesn’t even change my point. If anything, it kinda helps prove my point. People are gullible as hell. What’s that saying? “A lie will get halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to pull its boots on.”
A torrent of believable fakes will call into question photographic evidence. I mean, we’ve all seen it happening already. Some kinda strange or interesting picture shows up and everyone is claiming it was AI generated. That’s the other half of the problem.
Photographic evidence is now called into question readily. That happened with photoshop too, but like I said, throw enough shit against the wall—with millions and millions of other people also throwing shit at the wall—and some is bound to stick. The probability is skyrocketing now that it’s in everyone’s hands and the actually AIgen pictures are becoming indecipherable from photo evidence.
That low effort fairy hoax made a bunch of people believe there were 8in. fairies just existing in the world, regardless of how silly that was. Now, stick something entirely believable into a photograph that only barely blurs the lines of reality and it can be like wildfire. Have you seen those stupid Facebook AI pages? Like shrimp Jesus, the kids in Africa building cars out of garlic cloves, etc. People are falling for that dumbass shit. Now put Kamala Harris doing something shady and release it in late October. I would honestly be surprised if we’re not hit with at least one situation like that in a few months.
The new technique distorts reality in a much larger way. That hasn’t been there before. When everybody has this in their smartphones, we will look at manipulated pics on an hourly basis. That’s unprecedented.
If I say Tiananmen Square, you will, most likely, envision the same photograph I do.
There was film of that exact event. The guy didn’t get run over by the tank, he got on the hood and berated the driver.
Cops in America would run you over for less
Well, luckily all just had a talk and some tea about it and nobody died
Explain away all these other photos then
What do you mean explain away? I pointed out that they always stop the footage in a way that implies he dies- when he clearly doesn’t. Having an article about how AI photos can be used to manipulate our perception of reality cite an instance of careful propaganda manipulating the perception of what happened was just a little on the nose.
Seriously posting about a massacre from over 30 years ago where a few hundred people were killed fighting the cops like its supposed to carry water today? Just compare that to the massacre that’s happening right now in Gaza, way more actual evidence of heinous crimes and it’s way more of a concern to me because it’s my government funding it.
No sweat since i am eschewing most things google related.
The majority of others aren’t. The technology also isn’t exclusive to Google, or won’t be for long. Forget placing drugs on a person to have an excuse to arrest them, there will be photographic evidence, completely fake, of anyone counter to the system doing whatever crime they want to pin on us.
Look at the good side of this - now nobody has any reason to trust central authorities or any kind of official organization.
Previously it required enormous power to do such things. Now it’s a given that if there’s no chain of trust from the object to the spectator, any information is noise.
It all looks dark everywhere, but what if we will finally have that anarchist future, made by the hands of our enemies?
TAKING OUR JOBSHARASSING WOMEN AND CHILDREN-
Boys are taking images of female classmates and using AI to deepfake nude photos - Fortune
-
Female Fox journalist harassed and chased by migrants while reporting outside shelter - Dailymail
A THREAT TO OUR WAY OF LIFE-
A.I. Poses ‘Risk of Extinction,’ Industry Leaders Warn - NYTimes
-
Poll: Americans Fear their way of life is under threat - Fox News
THEY’RE SHITTING ON THE BEACHESREWRITING HISTORY BY DOCTORING PHOTOS WITH NEVER SEEN BEFORE PHOTO MANIPULATIONS
Sorry everyone I keep forgetting which zeitgeist that media is currently using to make us hate and fear something.
…did you just post 6 completely random articles as if there was some sort of point other than “news sites report lots of different news?”
did you just post 6 completely random articles
No, I mean there’s headings and groupings to assist with the inference
as if there was some sort of point other than “news sites report lots of different news?”
There might be a point. I see an association. If others do as well that’s good. If others don’t that is also ok.
To spell it out directly. I think its weird that media is recycling headlines for AI from republican headlines for immigration.
Often I cannot see the forest for the trees but sometimes I feel the presence of it even when I’m in it.
-
Meh, those edited photos could have been created in Photoshop as well.
This makes editing and retouching photos easier, and that’s a concern, but it’s not new.
Something I heard in the photoshop VS ai argument is it makes an already existing process much faster and almost anyone can do it which increases the shear amount that one person or a group could make almost how a printing press made the production of books so much faster (if you’re in to history)
I’m too tired to take a stance so I’m just sharing some arguments I’ve heard
almost how a printing press made the production of books so much faster
… and we all know that lead to 30 years of bloody war, btw
Making creating fake images even easier definitely isn’t great, I agree with you there, but it’s nothing that couldn’t already be done with Photoshop.
I definitely don’t like the idea you can do this on your phone.
Exactly, it was already established that pictures from untrusted sources are to be disregarded unless they can be verified by trusted sources.
It is basically how it has been forever with the written press: Just like everyone now has the capability to manipulate a picture. Everyone can write we are being invaded by aliens, but whether we should believe it is another thing.
It might take some time for the general public to learn this, but it should be a focus area of general schooling within the area of source criticism.
I wish tools to detect if an image is real or not become as easy to use and good as these AI tools bullshit.
It’s fundamentally not possible.
At some point fakes will be pixel perfect indistinguishable.
We need to bring back people who can identify shops from some of the pixels and having seen quite a few shops in their time.
Captain Disillusion vs. The Artificer
Any tool someone invents will be used to train an AI to circumvent that tool.
In fact that’s how a lot of AI training is done in the first place.
It’s a shitty toy that’ll make some people sorry when they don’t have any photos from their night out without tiny godzilla dancing on their table. It won’t have the staying power Google wishes it to, since it’s useless except for gags.
But, please, Verge,
It took specialized knowledge and specialized tools to sabotage the intuitive trust in a photograph.
get fucked
It’s going to be used prolifically for something much more boring. Embellished product listings and fake reviews. If online shopping is frustrating now. It’s probably going to get a lot worse trying to weed out good quality things to buy as photographs are no longer reliable.
Well, one may hope for a “worse is better” scenario. As in Star Wars EU, where people generally do shopping as they still do in less developed areas of our planet - asking people they trust, which ask other people they trust, and so on.
This is going to make centralized media a hellscape of fakery.
It’s like with viruses - if a virus kills people too fast, it’ll kill itself.
Maybe cypherpunk-style “public web” technologies will finally become mainstream, because the rest simply won’t be usable.
There was actually a user on Lemmy that asked if the original photo for the massacre was AI. It hadn’t occurred to me that people who never heard of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre would find the image and question if it was real or not.
A very sad sight, a very sad future.
How is it sad? If they’re young and/or don’t have the best schooling, it’s not their fault they haven’t heard of it. And then they encounter an absurd picture and approach it with skepticism? That’s not sad at all. Healthy skepticism is good, especially with the influx of AI generated content
Photoshop has existed for years. It’s no different than a student in 2010 being shocked at the horrors of man and trying to figure out how it could be faked with a computer. People have denied the Holocaust for generations!
This argument keeps missing that it is not only the quality but mainly the quantity of fakes which is going to be the problem. The complete undermining of trust in photographic evidence is seen as a good thing for so many nefarious vested interests, that this is an aim they will actively strive for.
It is different. The old Photoshop process took a lot of time. Now an image can be manipulated incredibly quickly and spread almost as fast before anyone has time to do anything about it.
Were they from the .ml instances?
We literally lived for thousands of years without photos. And we’ve lived for 30 years with Photoshop.
The article takes a doomed tone for sure but the reality is we know how dangerous and prolific misinformation is.
The Nazis based their entire philosophy on misinformation, and they did this in a world that predated computers. I don’t actually think there’s going to be a problem here all of the issues that the people are claiming exist have always been possible and not only possible but actually done in many cases.
AI is just the tool by which misinformation will now be spread but if AI didn’t exist the misinformation would just find another path.
I disagree with your point that it wouldn’t get worse. The Nazi example was in fact much worse for it’s time because of a new tool they called the “eighth great power”.
Goebbels used radio, which was new at the time, and subsidized radios for German citizens. AI is new, faster and more compelling than radio, not limited to a specific media type, and everyone already has receivers.
Except it was way harder to do.
Now call me a “ableist, technophobic, luddite”, that wants to ruin the chance of other people making GTA-like VRMMORPGs from a single line of prompt!
You know that’s not possible right?
if I as an anti-AI person said that, I’d be called out for posting FUD…
What are you talking about lol
have you considered just not listening to AI bros and not letting their opinions upset you
This reaffirms my wish to go back to monkey.
This is only a threat to people that took random picture at face value. Which should not have been a thing for a long while, generative AI or not.
The source of an information/picture, as well as how it was checked has been the most important part of handling online content for decades. The fact that it is now easier for some people to make edits does not change that.
This is a hyperbolic article to be sure. But many in this thread are missing the point. It’s not that photo manipulation is new.
It’s the volume and quality of photo manipulation that’s new. “Flooding the zone with bullshit,” i.e. decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio, can have a demonstrable social effect.
It seems like the only defense against this would be something along the lines of FUTO’s Harbor, or maybe Ghost Keys. I’m not gonna pretend to know enough about them technically or practically, but a system that can anonymously prove that you’re you across websites could potentially de-fuel that fire.