systemd cat and GNU cat hugging a Linux cat.
Since you asked for OS and not Linux: OpenBSD and FreeBSD are beautiful systems w/o systemd. I would switch in a heartbeat if I wouldn’t need Linux for work reasons.
This feels like an “I would switch to Linux if I didn’t need Windows for work” comment from another universe.
Fair point. :-)
At the end of the day, the OS has to run the software/applications one needs to get shit done… if it is macOS or Windows, that’s okay.
In my defense, I ran NetBSD for several years a long time back, and it was one of the best OS experiences I ever had. I am just old/pragmatic/flexible enough, to choose setups with less friction, if possible. ;-)
Still, I think it is a shame that Linux mostly took over the UNIX world and the BDS are left for hardcore nerds/embedding/game consoles and Solaris and co are not viable options anymore. Portable software and its stability benefited a lot from bugs detected on other platforms (OpenBSD was always a forerunner here).
BSD is to Linux users what Linux is to Windows users.
Not sure what you want to express. I actually used BSD a long time back, and the quality/documentation/coherence/beauty of the system are/were just on another level… Running Debian for nearly a decade now, because of compatibility (with hardware and software I need)… Linux improved a lot in the last nearly 3 decades and I am happy it exists, still I would be more happy if the BSDs would have stayed at least on an equal footing.
I think the comment speaks for itself. There wasn’t anything deep behind it. It literally just mean “Linux users look at BSD users how Windows users look at Linux.” Bewildered, mystified maybe? It’s just lower on the “food chain”, and they are surprised to see people using it because it’s missing “X” feature they can’t live without, for many people that being gaming. I’m in the same camp.
It was not a comment on the quality of the software, as I have never used it. I would love to tinker with it one day to see the differences, but I can’t see myself ever switching to it, even if I admire/envy some of the better parts compared to Linux.
Thanks for clarification!
… and I think you are point on, by now, the ship has sailed. I could use FreeBSD/OpenBSD on servers, but I’d rather run Debian everywhere. On desktops and for day to day usage, the BSDs are no viable options anymore, they simply lack support for common hardware (Wifi etc.) alone and the BSDs will realistically never be able to catch up the chasm anymore.
I feel there’s a similar relation between Mac :: Ubuntu (me) :: Arch.
I try to explain to folks that I have very little interest in anything outside of /home. I truly use Ubuntu because I like the desktop and Steam works and I have all the dev tools I need. But a certain type of otherwise competent Mac-using developer thinks I must be a 1337 h4x0r to even dare to use Linux for actual work.
Any “hate” in regards to you using Ubuntu is more likely to do with controversy involving Canonical than it is you using a beginner-friendly distro. People are more likely to be kinder to the Mint user.
Fediverse has its own baseline.
In terms of desktop operating systems, my first choices are usually Chimera Linux or FreeBSD.
Alpine. No GNU and systemD.
OPNSense.
Now that Windows qualifies under the prompt, not that I’d pick it but it’s just funny that it is.
MacOS. I use Linux for servers, Mac for daily driver. Windows for zilch, only at my job because I have to.
launchd is pretty similar to systemd.
GrapheneOS for Google Pixels, LineageOS for any other phone.
I personally think AROS ( AROS Research Operating Syste ) is pretty cool. Same with just the basic Amiga Workbench 3 series ( the only one I have any experience with ).
Obviously Amiga Workbench isn’t daily driver ready, but neither is AROS since it’s, from what I can tell, just an Amiga OS passion project trying to make a more modern more open source Amiga OS.
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I’m the same here. I don’t know enough or care to know enough about systemd. I simply enjoy the minimalism of Alpine.
The downside is that I have to learn a bit more to make it work how I want but as a hobby I enjoy it.
When I first started with linux, Mint with systemd just worked for my laptop. For the people who are less computer literate, that should be good enough. They don’t want to worry about how to make their computer work, they just wanna do basic computer things without hassle.
There are few system manager (single project or a mix of components) that use linux features efficiently and none have dev resource remotely comparable to systemd. That’s why in practice systemd is the best system layer implementation on gnu/linux. Android and chromeos userland (upstart derived) are not exactly (freedesktop) gnu/linux.
EDIT: the post ask which OS though. Including userland I like android a lot, but I would say illumos distros (OI currently). illumos has a system management similar to systemd (contracts in place of cgroups for example). Actually systemd was heavily inspired by SMF too.
cat head but no tail
System service managers like systemd, OpenRC, runit, or SysVinit often come down to user preference. While these systems are crucial for initializing and managing services on servers, where uptime, resource allocation, and specific daemon behaviors are important, their impact on a typical desktop or laptop is generally minimal.
For most personal devices, the primary functions of a service manager occur largely out of sight. As long as the system boots reliably and applications run smoothly, the underlying service manager rarely registers as a significant factor in the daily user experience.
For many, including myself, systemd simply works without much fuss. My choice to stick with it isn’t due to strong conviction or deep technical analysis, but rather the simple fact that I’ve rarely, if ever, had to interact with it directly. For my personal desktop and laptop, it reliably handles booting, service management, and shutdown in the background. If it’s not broken and isn’t hindering my daily computing, there’s no compelling reason to explore alternatives.
System service managers like systemd, OpenRC, runit, or SysVinit often come down to user preference.
And coding best-practice. And a philosophy borne of bad luck and bad software that aims to resist monoculture.
But that lennart kid is cool for a Microsoft employee.
@furycd001 @nutbutter Technically, it’s broken. If you run screen/tmux built without systemd support, it will be killed on logout. Systemd requires every program that needs daemonize link libsystemd0 only to notify systemd to keep it running. So it’s broken, but worked-around in every software which need daemonize
So, running a program incompatible with a particular system leads to incompatibilities?
Wow, who’d have thought…
@lka1988 why systemd needs some extra compatibility? If it designed to work, it must just work, not requiring changing evertyhing around
Ok, let me spell this out for you:
IF YOU RUN A PROGRAM THAT IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH A CERTAIN PART OF THE CORE SYSTEM, DON’T BE SURPRISED WHEN IT LEADS TO INCOMPATIBILITIES.
Systemd requires every program that needs daemonize link libsystemd0
No, that’s only if you want the health check feature, so that systemd can distinguish between e.g. “The process is started” and “The HTTP server is bound and listening”
You can run hello world and a
sleep()loop as a systemd daemon. You can run a Bash script as a systemd daemon.I’m pretty sure that notification is also like 5 lines of code. You read an env var and that tells you a pipe to send a single character on.
You are not obligated to use libsystemd. And if you were you could certainly layer another init system inside of it
If you run screen/tmux built without systemd support, it will be killed on logout.
Actually, if you run anything and logout, it will be killed after a timeout. The way to prevent this in systemd land is to enable-linger for that user.
IMO this is a pretty sane default and it’s easy enough to disable for users
EDIT: For non-root users
@InnerScientist This might be good behaviour (especially on shared multiuser system)
But how often you using shared multiuser systems in 2025? In 2015? In 2010 this might be useful, but now we are using containers instead.
When you have single root user, single unpriveleged user and few service users, such behaviour is just useless. If interactive user left some services running, it’s usually intentional. And systemd requires notify about this intention every time. Why? It’s just useless complexity.
That sounds like a design decision (not saying it’s good or bad here), not something broken.
Alpine Linux would be my favourite, although I only use it as a server distro. I use Artix as my daily driver for personal computers because of the AUR and glibc (Alpine is musl). I also enjoy Void but it’s not got as much software as Artix repos + AUR.
I’ve used Alpine for desktop, it’s honestly pretty good, small footprint and has most major desktops and their goodies. If you’re desperate for something out of the norm you still have flatpak.
GrapheneOS, I assume
🤔Windows 🤣
OS/2
