OK, its just a deer, but the future is clear. These things are going to start kill people left and right.
How many kids is Elon going to kill before we shut him down? Whats the number of children we’re going to allow Elon to murder every year?
Deer aren’t edge cases. If you are in a rural community or the suburbs, deer are a daily way of life.
As more and more of their forests are destroyed, deer are a daily part of city life. I live in the middle of a large midwestern city; in neighborhood with houses crowded together. I see deer in my lawn regularly.
People are acting like drivers don’t hit deers at full speed while they’re in control of the car. Unless we get numbers comparing self driving vs human driven cars then this is just a non story with the only goal being discrediting Musk when there’s so many other shit that can be used to discredit him.
To quote OP “How many kids will we let Elon kill before we shut him down?”, by this logic, how many kids will we let drivers kill before we take all cars off the road then?
People are acting like drivers don’t hit deers at full speed while they’re in control of the car.
I should be very surprised if people don’t generally try to brake or avoid hitting an animal (with some exceptions), if only so that they don’t break the car. Whether they succeed at that is another question entirely.
People drive drunk, people drive while checking their phone, people panic and freeze, deers often just jump in front of you from out of nowhere.
People hit fucking humans without braking because they’re not paying attention to what the fuck they’re doing!
But for some reason if it’s a car with assistance well now that’s scandalous! No idea if they’re safer in general and cause less accidents, one is too many! Unless it’s a human behind the wheel then who gives a fuck how many accidents they cause?
People drive drunk, people drive while checking their phone,
And those people are breaking the law.
people panic and freeze
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone panic so much they just act as if they didn’t even hit a deer.
deers often just jump in front of you from out of nowhere.
In this case, the deer was just sitting there, so not applicable.
People hit fucking humans without braking because they’re not paying attention to what the fuck they’re doing!
If it was this much negligence, they’d be facing vehicular manslaughter charges.
But for some reason if it’s a car with assistance well now that’s scandalous!
It’s scandalous when a human does it too. We should do better than human anyway, and we can identify a number of deliberate decisions that exacerbate this problem that could be addressed, e.g. mitigation through LIDAR, which Tesla has famously rejected.
… and that’s the kind of driving Tesla is trying to emulate? awesome.
No, I’m saying that one video of a Tesla hitting a deer doesn’t prove that they’re less safe or just as likely as human to hit things when using assisted driving.
Show actual stats of accidents per miles driven compared to cars without assisted driving and then we’ll be able to talk.
If we had videos of every Toyotas or Hyundai or Ford that hit deers while being driven by a human, this video of a Tesla doing it would just be a drop in a pool of water, but because it happened with an assistant behind the wheel people are acting like it means assisted driving doesn’t make cars safer.
TL;DR: It’s an anecdote, without actual stats it’s just noise to influence people’s opinion
Do you own Tesla stock?
Nope and I’ll be the first to say that Musk is a fucking moron, but there’s tons of shit to attack him on, pretending that Tesla cars are more deadly than human driven cars with anecdotal evidence is just stupid.
Problem is the data is rigged. It’s road miles driven that autopilot deigned to activate for with cars that rarely need their friction brakes that are less than 10 years old versus total population of cars with more age and more brake wear and when autopilot says ‘nope, too dangerous for me’, the human still drives.
The other problem is people are thinking they can ignore their cars operation, because of all the rhetoric. A human might have still hit the deer, but he would have at least applied brakes.
Finally, we shouldn’t settle for ‘no worse than human’ when we have more advanced sensors available, and we should call out Tesla for explicitly declaring ‘vision only’ when we already know other sensors can see things cameras cannot.
A human might have still hit the deer, but he would have at least applied brakes.
You’re making quite the assumption there.
I’m not saying we need to settle, I’m saying it’s useless to share that example if we don’t have actual numbers to compare the stats between human driven miles and miles in cars with assistance available and insurance companies would have that.
Bravo, you’re the first person to bring actual fucking statistics to the discussion! Per driven miles would be better than per driver but hey, at least it’s not just a clickbait article.
oh my fucking god
The deer are actually the ones doing much of the deforestation.
But I agree with your point that the overpopulation is impossible to miss. I’m also in the suburbs of a major Midwestern city and the deer are everywhere. My city tags them so, oddly, you kind of get to know them.
Last year #100 and #161 both had fawns in my back yard (for a total of 3 babies). This year, #161 dropped 2 more back there. I still see #100 around, but I don’t think she had offspring this year. She might have been sterilized, but I heard that the city stopped doing that because some of our tagged deer were tracked to 2 states away. Now we just cull them.
Two days ago I saw a buck (rare for the 'burbs) chasing a few of this year’s fawns around. I thought “you dummy, those girls are too young to breed,” but then I looked it up, and apparently sexual maturity in deer is determined by weight, not age. Does can participate in their first-year rut if they’ve had enough to eat. And those little shits have had plenty of flowers out of my garden.
The deer are building subdivisions and stroads?
I see buck all the time I’m my neighborhood! I was on a walk earlier this summer and turned a corner to be face to face with a small herd that was hopping fences to graze. The buck was across the street and just stared at me.
At first I was afraid because they can get big, but now I’ve seen them a few times and I’m thinking they are used to people. I’m still not getting close if I can help it. They are much bigger than you would expect.
I like seeing them but I feel bad that they are stuck in the city.
Why does this read like an ad for cybertrucks for people who would want to run over deer
What’s Kennedy driving these days?
Only keeping the regular cameras was a genius move to hold back their full autonomy plans
The day he said that “ReGULAr CAmErAs aRe ALl YoU NeEd” was the day I lost all trust in their implementation. And I’m someone who’s completely ready to turn over all my driving to an autopilot lol
You can’t understand his ironman levels of genius because of your below-billionnaire mind
I believe we can make a self-driving car with only optical sensors that performs as well as a human someday. I don’t think today is that day, or that we shouldn’t aim for self-driving to be far better than human drivers.
Honestly, I’m surprised the car was still in one piece. I’ve seen semi-trucks disintegrate after hitting a dear.
In what way? If it’s the bumpers and the crumple zone, then that’s a feature. Do you have a picture about what you are talking about? I’m curious.
If the deer is above certain height, its body comes up and enters your precious room through the windshield. You are lucky if you survive then.
You are thinking of moose.
Moose are technically deer (taxonomic family Cervidae, which also contains reindeer, red deer, roe deer, etc). And a big bull can weigh almost a (US conventional) ton. I don’t know whether that’s enough to trash a modern semi (based on an old memory of an apparently undamaged semi and a dead moose on the shoulder of an Ontario highway in the 1990s, I’d guess probably not, or at least not always), but I wouldn’t want to be the driver of the semi, either. Hitting them in an ordinary passenger vehicle—like any Tesla product—is something you really don’t want to do.
Moose are worse because they are heavier and the impact means most of the body mass goes ibtonthe windshield, but deer go right over hoods and into the windsheild on most cars too.
No they aren’t. Deer are often struck mid-bound which will absolutely send them flying into your windshield. Also, depending on what part of the world you are in, deer can get pretty huge.
I don’t keep pictures like that on me, and I don’t feel like doing a google search for you. Travel blue ridge parkway or skyline drive, or any back road in the Appalachians and you will see what happens when a ten point meets metal.
I’ve seen semi-trucks disintegrate after hitting a dear.
I’d like to see that, I’ve seen modern regular full size trucks annihilate a deer without disintegrating. Semis wouldn’t be bothered much unless you’re talking about something larger like a moose. Deer are about the same weight as humans, whatever is good at killing humans is usually good for deer.
The average weight of an adult male is 203 lb (maximum, 405 lb). The average weight of a female is about 155 lb (maximum, 218 lb).
Granted the semi I saw had a guard on the front of it, but I witnessed one smoke a fully grown cow at 70mph. Sent the cow and pieces of it flying about 100 feet, with no visible damage to the truck at all. There was a tremendous amount of blood and spatter everywhere and my own car got a ton of blood on it from the cloud of guts and blood made by the truck. Mostly there was just shit everywhere leading up to the remnants of the carcass, but the truck gave no fucks whatsoever. I asked the driver if he was ok and he didn’t even seem to have any agitation whatsoever, more like “oh, another one”.
A truck will not disintegrate, there might be damage if it didn’t have a guard, but against a deer, that must’ve been a paper mache piece of shit truck if it disintegrated on a deer.
The poster, who pays Tesla CEO Elon Musk for a subscription to the increasingly far-right social media site, claimed that the FSD software “works awesome” and that a deer in the road is an “edge case.” One might argue that edge cases are actually very important parts of any claimed autonomy suite, given how drivers check out when they feel the car is doing the work, but this owner remains “insanely grateful” to Tesla regardless.
How are these people always such pathetic suckers.
Edge cases (NOT features) are the thing that keeps them from reaching higher levels of autonomy. These level differences are like “most circumstances”, “nearly all circumstances”, “really all circumstances”.
Since Tesla cares so much more about features, they will remain on level 2 for another very long time.
Deer on the road is an edge case that humans cannot handle well. In general every option other than hitting the deer is overall worse - which is why most insurance companies won’t increase your rates if you hit a deer and file a claim for repairs.
The only way to not hit/kill hundreds of deer (thousands? I don’t know the number) every year is to reduce rural speed limits to unreasonably slow speeds. Deer jump out of dark places right in front of cars all the time - the only option to avoid it that might work is either drive in the other lanes (which sometimes means into an oncoming car), or into the ditch (you have no clue what might be there - if you are lucky the car just rolls, but there could be large rocks or strong fence posts and the car stops instantly. Note that this all happens fast, you can’t think you only get to react. Drivers in rural areas are taught to hit the brakes and maintain their lane.
Deer jump out of dark places
that one was just standing there, yo
If tesla also used radar or other sensing systems instead of limiting themselves to only cameras then being in the dark wouldn’t be an issue.
In general every option other than hitting the deer is overall worse
You’re wrong. The clear solution here is to open suicide-prevention clinics for the depressed deer.
Drivers in rural areas are taught to hit the brakes and maintain their lane.
Which the Tesla didn’t do. It plowed full speed into the deer, which arguably made the collision much much worse than it could have been. I doubt the thing was programmed to maintain speed into a deer. The more likely alternative is that the FSD couldn’t tell there was a deer there in the first place.
Braking dips the hood making it easier for the deer to go into the windshield. You should actually speed up right before hitting to make your hood go up and make it hopefully go under or better stay in the grill.
This sounds made up
If you think physics is made up, sure…
The physics is F=(m*v)/t
I.e. the greater the velocity the greater the force of impact.
A moving vehicle in real life is a bit more complicated of an equation, factor in the car’s angle towards the horizontal as you accelerate or brake, that’s the original point, but whatever.
I don’t think hitting more gas is going to gently slide the 300 pound buck under my car. It’s just going to increase the impact force.
Considering suspension, if you accelerate there’s a lowering of the back of the car/raising of the front.
Conversely, breaking has the opposite effect, increasing the chances of the deer rolling over your hood and through your windshield.
You’ll want to minimize that, hence the acceleration.
Sliding the deer under your car is also really bad for you. It’s going to do a lot of damage under there such as ripping break lines, destroying ball joints, or fragging your differentials. You need to safely shed as much speed as possible while maintaining your lane when about to hit a deer.
Maybe, but it’s still the case that slowing down will impart less energy to the collision. Let up on the brake before impact if you want, but you should have been braking once you first saw the deer in the road.
Sometimes those fuckers just jump out at you at the last minute. They’re not smart. But if you click the link, this one was right in the middle of the road, with that “Deer in the headlights” look. There was plenty of time to slow down before impact.
Conditions matter and your reaction should always be for the worst possible scenario (moose and snow), braking removes your ability to maneuver as well, and locking the brakes up which will almost always happen when you panic break, would be the worst scenario. If there’s snow or rain, braking again is right out.
If it jumps out and you can’t do anything but brake, you shouldn’t do that, you grip the wheel and maintain speed, and if you can punch the gas for the hood raise. But people panic and can’t think. So maintain speed, don’t panic and lock your brakes up.
You know cars have had ABS for a long time, right?
Speeding up instead of braking is fucking stupid, you’re just increasing the impact force (F=(m*v)/t), and increasing the likelihood of the deer going through your windscreen and killing people.
In this case, the deer just stood there in the road.
Any driver and any AI should be able to stop before the obstacle in that case.
Cause it could be a human, or a fallen tree instead of a deer.You should know how to brake without causing maneuver problems (including not locking up the wheels). It is a basic skill needed for many situations. Just keep slowing down, the accelerate just before impact is something that can only be done in movies - any real world attempt will be worse - remember if you keep braking you lose momentum, so the acceleration needs to be perfectly timed or it is worse.
aight what’s your strategy for hitting a giraffe, then?
Same for a moose? Speed up so you clear it before gravity caves your car roof.
You maintain speed, you can’t maneuver well if braking, and as stated your hood dips while braking too which can cause worse issues.
No, for moose you are actually supposed to swerve and risk the ditch.
The whole premise of ABS brakes, which all cars made in North America since 2012 will have, is specifically to allow you to maintain control when you fully apply the brakes. Unless you are a professional driver or have a car without ABS, you should just fully apply the brakes in an emergency stop. Please stop telling people that fully applying the brakes will reduce manueverability when it won’t for the majority of drivers in the developed world.
And if someone’s vehicle doesn’t have ABS, they should know how to properly brake without locking their tires, and when it won’t be appropriate to use them.
That’s a good strategy to ensure you die: a mooses torso is already higher than the hood of a lot of SUVs, so you’re taking a moose to the face.
Troll comment.
You do that - you die.
I don’t know, where I live giraffes are only in the zoo and thus never on the road. I’m not aware of any escaping the zoo.
I’m sure if I lived around wild deere, my training would include that, but since I don’t I was able to save some time by not learning that.
What if you’re driving through a zoo though?
I’ve never been in a zoo I’m allowed to drive more thln e wheelchair through. They may require extra training - I would not know
Right before hitting begin the keyword. If you can stop before hitting yes that’s ideal, but in situations where it jumps out and you can’t react. Braking during impact is the worst thing you can do.
If you think I’m saying to line it up and accelerate for 200meters, I dont know what to say about that,
Dude, the article just said to hit the brakes “if you can’t avoid hitting a deer”, the exact scenario you described… Did you even open it?
I can see it in the headline, without opening the article
Braking during impact is the worst thing you can do.
This is not correct, where are you getting this from?
Doesn’t this all depend on the height of your car and the condition of your shocks? Doesn’t seem like a hard and fast rule. Also, you’re assuming rear wheel drive. FWD does not “raise the hood” like you’re playing Cruising USA.
Life is not an arcade game.
Please show me that guideline, anywhere.
/Swede living in the deer countryside
Wear gloves when they hand you that guideline because they might be pulling it out of their ass.
The problem is not that the deer was hit, a human driver may have done so as well. The actual issue is that the car didn’t do anything to avoid hitting it. It didn’t even register that the deer was there and, what’s even worse, that there was an accident. It just continued on as if nothing happened.
Yeah, the automated system should be better than a human. That is the whole point of collision detection systems!
Right. I was trying to decide whether to mention that deer can be hard to spot in time. Even in the middle of the road like this, they’re non-reflective and there may be no movement to catch the eye. It’s very possible for a human to be zoning out and not notice this deer in time
But yeah, this is where we need the car to help. This is what the car should be better than human with. This is what would make ai a good tool to improve safety. If it saw the deer
Damn right. Stomp the brakes and take it to the face.
Deer on the road is an edge case that humans cannot handle well.
If I’m driving at dawn or dusk, when they’re moving around in low light I’m extra careful when driving. I’m scanning the treeline, the sides of the road, the median etc because I know there’s a decent chance I’ll see them and I can slow down in case they make a run across the road. So far I’ve seen several hundred deer and I haven’t hit any of them.
Tesla makes absolutely no provision in this regard.
This whole FSD thing is a massive failure of oversight, no car should be doing self driving without using cameras and radar and Tesla should be forced to refund the
suckerscustomers who paid for this feature.Sure, I do that too. I also have had damage because a deer I didn’t see jumped out of the trees onto the road. (Though as others pointed out this case the deer was on the road with plenty of time to stop (or at least greatly slow down), but the Tesla did nothing.
Sunk cost? Tech worship?
I’m so jaded, I question my wife when she says the sun will rise tomorrow so I really don’t get it either.
Being a run of the mill fascist (rather than those in power) is actually an incredibly submissive position, they just want strong daddies to take care of them and make the bad people go away. It takes courage to be a “snowflake liberal” by comparison
Yeah this Tesla owner is dumb. wdym “we just need to train the AI to know what deer butts look like”? Tesla had radar and sonar, it didn’t need to know what a deer’s butt looks like because radar would’ve told it something was there! But they took it away because Musk had the genius idea of only using cameras for whatever reason.
I grew up in Maine. Deer in the road isn’t an edge case there. It’s more like a nightly occurrence.
I drove through rural Arkansas at sundown once. I’ve never seen so many deer in my life.
Same in northern Michigan in mid summer. And most of New England as well.
Same in Kansas. Was in a car that hit one in the 80s and see them often enough that I had to avoid one that was crossing a busy interstste highway last week.
Deer are the opposite of an edge case in the majority of the US.
It’s no different in Southern Ontario where I live. Saw a semi truck plow into one, it really wasn’t pretty. Another left a huge dent on my mom’s car when she hit one driving at night.
Putting these valid points aside we’re also all just taking for granted that the software would have properly identified a human under the same circumstances… This could very easily have been a much more chilling outcome
I’m not taking that for granted. If it can’t tell a solid object os in the road, I would guess that would be true for a human that is balled up or facing away as well.
Same, hit one just south of Lyndon at night.
I’d go even farther and say most driving is an edge case. I used 30 day trial of full self-driving and the results were eye opening. Not how it did: it was pretty much as expected, but looking at where it went wrong.
Full self driving did very well in “normal” cases, but I never realized just how much of driving was an “edge” case. Lane markers faded? No road edge but the ditch? Construction? Pothole? Debris? Other car does something they shouldn’t have? Traffic lights not aligned in front of you so it’s not clear what lane? Intersection not aligned so you can’t just go straight across? People intruding? Contradictory signs? Signs covered by tree branches? No sight line when turning?
After that experiment, it seems like “edge” cases are more common than “normal” cases when driving. Humans just handle it without thinking about it, but the car needs more work here
I cannot support tesla now that I know they aren’t vegan smh
It kills the deer and keeps on going, it doesn’t stop to let you collect it so you can eat it. They are chaotic evil vegans.
You’re supposed to collect it and then stage a bicycle accident in Central Park.
Elon’s Death
For a brief moment, I was so excited… Rip deer.
We can only hope soon 🙏
Is there a longer video anywhere? Looking closely I have to wonder where the hell did that deer come from? There’s a car up ahead of the Tesla in the same lane, I presume quickly moved back in once it passed the deer? The deer didn’t spook or anything from that car?
This would have been hard for a human driver to avoid hitting, but I know the issue is the right equipment would have been better than human vision, which should be the goal. And it didn’t detect the impact either since it didn’t stop.
But I just think it’s peculiar that that deer just literally popped there without any sign of motion.
Deer will do that. They have absolutely no sense of self-preservation around cars.
That is because at a distance they freeze in case a predator hasn’t noticed them yet. Theey don’t bolt until they think an attack is imminent, and cars move to fast for them to react.
Is there a longer video anywhere? Looking closely I have to wonder where the hell did that deer come from?
I have the same question. If you watch the video closely the deer is located a few feet before the 2nd reflector post you see at the start of the video. At that point in time the car in front is maybe 20’ beyond the post which means they should have encountered the deer within the last 30-40 feet but there was no reaction visible.
You can also see both the left and right sides of the road at the reflector well before the deer is visible, you can even make out a small shrub off the road on the right, and but somehow can’t see the deer enter the road from either side?!
It’s like the thing just teleported into the middle of the lane.
The more I watch this the more suspicious I am that the video was edited.
Ever hear the phrase “like a deer caught in headlights”? That’s what they do. They see oncoming headlights and just freeze.
It depends. If it’s on the side of the road it may do the opposite and jump in front of you. This one actually looked like it was going to start moving, but not a chance.
It’s the gap between where the deer is in the dark and the car in front that’s odd. Only thing I can figure is the person was in the other lane and darted over just after passing the deer.
The front car is probably further ahead than you think, and a deer can move onto the road quickly and freeze when looking at headlights or slow down if confused. I think in this case the deer was facing away and may not have even heard the vehicle approaching so it wasn’t trying to avoid danger.
I avoided a deer in a similar situation while driving last week, and the car ahead of us was closer than this clip. Just had to brake and change lanes.
That’s why you flash your lights on and off at them, to get them to unfreeze before you get too close.
The road is paved with squirrels who couldn’t make up their minds.
That deer was pushing the woke agenda!
It was using the doe restroom.
- Vehicle needed lidar
- Vehicle should have a collision detection indicator for anomalous collisions and random mechanical problems
I thought the deer would be running or something, but no its just straight on from the car, doesn’t move at all! How the fuck does a deer standing dead center in front of you not get caught by the camera!
I watched the whole video… Mowed down like 90 deer in a row.
don’t most cars have proximity and collision detectors now?
Not Tesla though, it relies on cameras only.
leave it to elon to take existing technology and make it worse to sell it as innovative high tech. fucking moron
Whats the number of children we’re going to allow Elon to murder every year?
What’s the number of adults?
So, a kid on a bicycle or scooter is an edge case? Fuck the Muskrat and strip him of US citizenship for illegally working in the USA. Another question. WTF was the driver doing?
In regards to the deer, it looks like it might have been hard to see for the driver. I remember learning in driversED that it is better to hit the animal instead of swerving to miss it as it might hit a car to your side, so maybe that is what they were thinking?
Drivers Ed does not however say to ignore the brakes, either trying to avoid a collision. Especially to ignore the brakes after having hit something.
Filming, duh.
