Is anyone actually surprised by this?
Idk DeepSeek probably just stores things in the history of my Terminal window.
No.
As opposed to Microsoft, Google, … NSA, or GCHQ servers. Or all of the above.
Yeah, but these are wholesome domestic spy agencies that are just looking after you and protect you from yourself.
[stellar wind has never left the chat]
Fuck. They told me that they were storing my backups.
Chinese company does what American companies have done for 25+ years now!
Is it time for REAL data privacy laws or are we just gonna keep playing whack-a-mole with Chinese tech companies that get us nowhere?
Our data’s just too valuable for these parasites. Data privacy laws may eventually pass to compel software companies to store everything in US servers only.
Excellent Point. If that’s the case though, then wouldn’t other countries follow suit which still limits big tech’s reach and makes them less profitable and less powerful? Idk. Guess we’ll see how it plays out. Either way, I’m staying as far from those ecosystems as possible to at least try to mitigate some of what they do. I’ll never be totally successful, genie is put of the bottle, but we can at least attempt.
Any ChatAI logs your keystrokes and your inputs to work and update their LLM. The PP and TOS is the same and even better as those from the US competitors. DeepSeek is OpenSource
Anyway I prefer Andisearch and its PP, the best of all these big tech AIs.
Is Deepseek Open Source?
Hugging Face researchers are trying to build a more open version of DeepSeek’s AI ‘reasoning’ model
Hugging Face head of research Leandro von Werra and several company engineers have launched Open-R1, a project that seeks to build a duplicate of R1 and open source all of its components, including the data used to train it.
The engineers said they were compelled to act by DeepSeek’s “black box” release philosophy. Technically, R1 is “open” in that the model is permissively licensed, which means it can be deployed largely without restrictions. However, R1 isn’t “open source” by the widely accepted definition because some of the tools used to build it are shrouded in mystery. Like many high-flying AI companies, DeepSeek is loathe to reveal its secret sauce.
No, this is just propaganda
This make the news only because it’s going to chinese servers. Didn’t see anything like that about ChatGPT or the one made by Google.
DeepSeek does the same things that OpenAI does, but it’s a foreign actor so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRrRey!
Nope you can’t run chatgpt locally.
The response the deepseek has been so transparent and cliched .
I thought more of Mashable. , but I suppose it’s good when they show you who they really are
but it’s a foreign actor so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRrRey!
I love that people think this is a solid own. Lest we forget Hong Kong, or an impending hot war in Taiwan or building out extradition systems with an expanding network of countries to forcibly repatriate and torture dissidents and human rights lawyers.
You used to not have to explain why authoritarianism was bad.
Edit: I would love to know the Pro side of what happened in Hong Kong, or the forced extradition regime, since evidently I’m clearly in the wrong in thinking those were bad. What am I missing?
or an impending hot war in Taiwan
When you can’t even find things that China actually has done to complain about, so you have to start complaining about things they haven’t done.
It used to not be necessary because democracies used to have moral authority but since the revelations of Manning and Snowden non-Americans see no difference between giving our data to the USA or to China or any other. We also know from the reaction to the war in Ukraine and Gaza that human rights claims are only sometimes used.
Anti terrorism is good, actually. I don’t support people kicking seniors for speaking mandarin to try to bully a government into not prosecuting murderers in the mainland, which was the reason the protests happened (that and Washington money)
I’m not American so they are indeed a foreign actor.
Wait until they hear what data Instagram/Meta collects during use!
But they’re a US company so it’s ok.
As a US citizen, I prefer services that US consumer protections could apply to. (While we still have them, ahem.) I know that Chinese laws will not protect me from things a Chinese business does in China.
As a chauvinist
Ftfy
This makes me sad, that we can’t engage in civil discussion about this. Why did you assume and not ask questions? Be curious, not judgmental.
To me it’s a question of laws. The laws of the U.S. at least somewhat constrain the people of my own country, and can prevent them from working against their own citizens. Like me.
Please be kind when replying.
Fuck civility, its a tool of oppression
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data? Selling it? If you’re not a Chinese National, at least you don’t fall under their jurisdiction.
If you’re a U.S. citizen, with all the tech oligarchs cozying up to the current administration, I’d be a lot more concerned with Facebook/Twitter/Etc collecting your data.
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data?
Probably mapping out the extended support networks of democratic activists in Taiwan to prepare to throw them in jail after a forcible military takeover.
So democratic activists in Taiwan have extensive networks in the US?
I mean, you said it.
Extensive networks with their close ally? My pearls must be clutched!!
Networks with a foreign actor undermining national sovereignty, which financed several massacres in your country
My country? Not sure what you’re talking about but I know that Taiwan deserves sovereignty. You don’t? Surely you’re not pro imperialism…
The CCP is significantly more oppressive, gives zero shits about human rights or trademarks or really anyone at all. The US at least pretends to care.
That doesn’t affect people not in china or not bordering china.
Bro you can stop that narrative. The truth is out now.
The truth is out now.
What truth? Who talks like this and thinks it means something?
For the past week the people of China and the United States, as well as other countries have been comparing notes. Debunking propaganda on both sides. Realizing that much of what we’ve all been told for years/decades, has been lies.
I’m ootl. What debunks have come out?
Based on what? The US imprisons more people, kills more people, tortures more people. The only way to argue that China is more oppressive is basically to start with the assumption they are and then work backwards to justify it.
I listed a handful of reasons above, of which no one has denied or refuted. Just downvoted.
Actually you didn’t. You listed a bunch of accusations against China (which were refuted, you just ignored that), but you didn’t even try to explain how that’s more oppressive than the USA. Even if all your accusations were true, the US is still more oppressive.
I see you are sticking with the pack here and going with generic denial and ignoring my arguments rather than actually refuting them.
now we’ve got another refutopolis warrior.
What does that even mean?
that’s pure ideology.
The US is in the process of deporting all its migrants and threatening invasions on half the world.
I get that gringos don’t want to own up to their complicity by inaction but you oughta stop pontificating about how other governments are worse. Unless they’re called Israel, they weren’t before and they sure as fuck aren’t now.
Get fucked, racist.
You cannot be a serious leftist and pretend to be offended by a little “anti-white” rhetoric.
Lmaooo hurting gringos feelings is being racist? Y’all have had concentration camps for longer than you’ve been without them, you know their fucking addresses and they’re still there.
Do forgive me for throwing y’all’s opinions on racism in the dustbin.
Strawmanning the open source federated social media enthusiast crowd as unaware fans of meta?
That sinophobia isn’t going to stoke itself!
Pathetic
Western authorities have been harvesting data for a few decades from social media so any complaint that singles out Chinese apps doing the same is obviously rooted in sinophobia.
The fact you think my joking about racists doing that is pathetic shows which side of that assertion you fall.
My content on here speaks for it self… Dear
rAyCIsM 🤡
Assuming that DeepSeek really is logging keystrokes (they provided no evidence: who were they quoting?), that is unfortunately not uncommon. As shown by their TikTok pearl clutching, corporate media regularly goes for maximalist cold war fearmongering.
(they provided no evidence: who were they quoting?)
https://platform.deepseek.com/downloads/DeepSeek Privacy Policy.html
Ctrl-F “rhythm”
I’ve noticed that this “there is no proof!” or “where’s the evidence?” all of a sudden has become popular. You have people saying it even when they’re talking about a very specific statement of a fact that’s very specifically and easily verifiable.
that is unfortunately not uncommon
Completely true. A lot of web sites monitor everything you do on them, and can play it back for anyone who’s curious about optimizing the UX or for any other less innocent reason. Generally I think there’s not much specific in their privacy policy about it when they do. It’s not surprising that this one is also doing that, accompanied by really a pretty minor line in their privacy policy to go along with it, I completely agree with you here.
As shown by their TikTok pearl clutching, corporate media regularly goes for maximalist cold war fearmongering.
Personally, I wish the corporate media would pearl-clutch a little bit more about how explicitly malicious to our interests our computing devices have become. “Everyone does it, so it’s not a big deal after all” is a common take to have, but it’s the exact opposite of the one that I personally have on it.
“Everyone does it, so it’s not a big deal after all” is a common take to have, but it’s the exact opposite of the one that I personally have on it.
That’s not my take, and I agree with you.
Well, you did say it was “pearl clutching” and “fearmongering.” My point is, they should be clutching pearls, and fear should be mongered. Arguably, at all the social media companies including TikTok.
I actually do agree that TikTok is worse, but it’s hardly the point. We can be alarmed about all of them, especially since the US ones are now in the hands of an overtly evil tyrannical government instead of merely the sociopathic profit-minded corporatocracy they were in before.
You’re literally talking to people in a privacy forum hosted outside of corporate social media… and you think people don’t agree with you. We wouldn’t fucking be here if we weren’t already on the same page about such issues.
That’s on you, dude.
I’m talking to someone in a privacy forum hosted outside of corporate social media who described reports about privacy violations committed by a privacy-invasive social media app as pearl-clutching and fearmongering.
I’m not sure what your deal is, here, but I’m not into it. I feel like what I said was pretty straightforward and you’re determined to gin up some kind of disagreement, where I’m supposed to say that corporate media’s reporting on privacy isn’t bad, or something.
Privacy good, corporate privacy invasion bad. Corporate media underreporting of privacy violations bad. Hopefully that makes sense, and we can agree on it. I’m not into whatever argument you’re attempting to create about it.
Privacy good, corporate privacy invasion bad. Corporate media underreporting of privacy violations bad.
We never had an argument other than you keep positing that people don’t agree with this while they’re busy explaining to you that yes, they actually do, and you keep choosing to ignore that. “Corporate media underreporting of privacy violations bad” is literally what I spent several paragraphs explaining that you took as “yelling” and “disagreement.”
…but keep on arguing with people who actually agree with you and telling yourself they don’t.
Got it. Yeah, fair enough. What I was aiming to do, more or less, was ask for clarification, but I definitely see how it could come across as me trying to continue the argument when he was saying that he already agreed with me. I think you hopping into it with a big italic and bold wall of text on the thing that apparently all three of us already agree on only confused the issue further.
Anyway, sounds like we’re all on the same page. Cool.
Everyone does it, so it’s not a big deal after all
…and I think that’s you completely misreading what people are saying.
We’re saying that it’s bunk for the corporate media to portray it as this dangerous thing when they refuse to report similarly on US companies doing the same with the same ferocity.
I think most people agree with you, that our privacy protections are fucking abysmal and no company should be being allowed to do this stuff. Hell, that’s like the entire thrust of Ed Zitron’s entire fucking blog: that none of these companies should get away with this.
It’s like when Facebook got fined a paltry sum for being caught lying about their video metrics and literally putting businesses like CollegeHumor out of business because they “pivoted to facebook video” to grab those high metrics… which never materialized because Facebook was ratfucking lying to people. They should have been shut down and put out of business for that, not fined less than they made ripping off people.
People are sick of the companies here getting a pass, and the media gives them a pass. It’s more that you can’t make freaked out headlines like this about TikTok and DeepSeek and not understand that everyone is rolling their fucking eyes because we’re all like “it’s no worse than what US companies already do to us.” That doesn’t mean we like it or are okay with it. It means we’re rolling our eyes at a fucking insipid news media that’s obviously lying to us for the sake of private American companies profit, not because they care about rightfully informing American citizentry about what is happening.
All of us fucking hate it, but what the fuck do you expect us as individuals to do about it? Folks like me have been voting Blue for 25 fucking years with fuck-all to show for it on issues like these. So why’s it our job to explain that we don’t support it, we just think it’s dumb as fuck when a foreign company is doing the same thing and now suddenly that’s evil, but our guys doing it is somehow fine. What we have issue with is the hypocrisy.
Dude, why is this guy getting so upset about the suggestion that people should be alarmed both by TikTok and also by the malicious behavior of all the other social media companies? And that the media should report more on it? Why is he yelling so much at me for making what I thought was that fairly reasonable suggestion?
Folks like me have been voting Blue for 25 fucking years
Oh. Um… what? What does that… okay.
Edit: Oh, also, you were unnecessarily doing a bunch of obedience to the establishment if you’ve been voting blue for 25 years. Back in the Bill Clinton era, the parties really were practically indistinguishable, and there were other realistic options like Ralph Nader and Ron Paul on the table who were genuinely pretty good. They got creamed by FPTP, but right around the year 2000 was a time when almost anyone could see that the good options were not within either major party. Al Gore being a pretty obvious and rare exception. The calculus changed a lot with the last few elections, where the Republicans became such an objectively terrifying option that voting for the Democrat just so they wouldn’t get into office became a necessary strategy if you care about the country. In my opinion.
I literally explained it pretty clearly.
At this point its clear you want to misunderstand.
Interesting that you took a few paragraphs with a handful of explitives thrown in as “yelling.”
https://platform.deepseek.com/downloads/DeepSeek Privacy Policy.html
Ctrl-F “rhythm”
I assumed that they couldn’t have gotten that from the privacy policy itself, because I’d never seen one be so explicit.
maybe they harvest passwords on the side?
It doesn’t have access to all your keystrokes. An app can only harvest the keystrokes typed into it.
Let’s be honest, ChatGPT is also logging keystrokes.
Yes. I also like how the alarming take on it is not “People are typing their passwords / medical histories / employer’s source code into ChatGPT and from there it goes straight into the training data not only to be stored forever in the corpus, but also sometimes, to be extracted at a later date by any yahoo who knows the way to tease it back out from ChatGPT via the right carefully crafted prompting!”
But instead it is “When you type things, they can see what you type! The keystrokes!”
And they probably aren’t even doing that. More likely, it’s just bot prevention.
they are actually training on this data (potentially). Its a fact. Only if you use some kind of special corporate license then they will not train on the data. (and you need to trust them on that)
I wouldn’t be so sure. China is at the world’s forefront of automated techniques to be able to spy on and manipulate people through their own devices at massive scale. If they had some semi-workable technology to fingerprint individuals through their typing patterns, in conjunction with fingerprinting the devices they were using through other means, that would make perfect sense to me.
I don’t think it is especially a concern for Deepseek specifically, for reasons discussed elsewhere in the comments. That one particular aspect of the privacy issue is probably being overblown, when there are other adjacent privacy and security concerns that are a lot more pressing. Honestly, that one particular detail isn’t really proven simply because it’s in the privacy policy, and even if they are doing something like that, its inclusion or not in this particular privacy policy or this app isn’t the particularly notable part about it.
They are quoting DeepSeek’s privacy policy. They say this before and after the first quote, and also link the policy at the top of the article.
Question: if we bridge 2 ais and let them talk to one another, will they eventually poison each other with gibberish bullshit?
I trust DeepSeek Open Source if it allows me to copy and review it. I don’t trust
OpenAI like ChatGPT.Is Deepseek Open Source?
Hugging Face researchers are trying to build a more open version of DeepSeek’s AI ‘reasoning’ model
Hugging Face head of research Leandro von Werra and several company engineers have launched Open-R1, a project that seeks to build a duplicate of R1 and open source all of its components, including the data used to train it.
The engineers said they were compelled to act by DeepSeek’s “black box” release philosophy. Technically, R1 is “open” in that the model is permissively licensed, which means it can be deployed largely without restrictions. However, R1 isn’t “open source” by the widely accepted definition because some of the tools used to build it are shrouded in mystery. Like many high-flying AI companies, DeepSeek is loathe to reveal its secret sauce.
The runner is open source, and that’s what matter in this discussion. If you host the model on your own servers, you can ensure that no corporation (american or Chinese) has access to your data. Access to the training code and data is irrelevant here.
The guys at HF (and many others) appear to have a different understanding of Open Source.
As the Open Source AI definition says, among others:
Data Information: Sufficiently detailed information about the data used to train the system so that a skilled person can build a substantially equivalent system. Data Information shall be made available under OSI-approved terms.
- In particular, this must include: (1) the complete description of all data used for training, including (if used) of unshareable data, disclosing the provenance of the data, its scope and characteristics, how the data was obtained and selected, the labeling procedures, and data processing and filtering methodologies; (2) a listing of all publicly available training data and where to obtain it; and (3) a listing of all training data obtainable from third parties and where to obtain it, including for fee.
Code: The complete source code used to train and run the system. The Code shall represent the full specification of how the data was processed and filtered, and how the training was done. Code shall be made available under OSI-approved licenses.
- For example, if used, this must include code used for processing and filtering data, code used for training including arguments and settings used, validation and testing, supporting libraries like tokenizers and hyperparameters search code, inference code, and model architecture.
Parameters: The model parameters, such as weights or other configuration settings. Parameters shall be made available under OSI-approved terms.
- The licensing or other terms applied to these elements and to any combination thereof may contain conditions that require any modified version to be released under the same terms as the original.
These three components -data, code, parameter- shall be released under the same condition.
US and the west: … Spying is not acceptable! … except if our companies are doing it
Bootlickers downvoting
When my daddy abuses me that’s love 🤡
DeepSeek’s privacy policy raises concerns about a U.S. foreign adversary’s ability to access U.S. user data. Users are familiar with the massive amounts of data U.S. tech companies collect, but China’s cybersecurity laws make it much easier for the government to demand data from its tech companies. Additionally, DeepSeek users have reported instances of censorship, when it comes to criticizing the Chinese government or asking about Tiananmen Square.
Users have been shown that both governments are untrustworthy so what the fuck are we supposed to do?
Am I supposed to not read this article as panic? I know this is Mashable but the media overall is no longer unbiased and now there’s gonna be more gremlins to watch for in pro-US corpo AI propaganda and media ownership having stakes in AI.
Well, only one of those governments can actually do anything to me. Hint: it’s the one I live under
You think other governments can’t reach you? Did you miss the whole “election interference” thing? Have you never heard of propaganda?
Okay, but they can’t literally bust down my door and kill me.
No, but they can manipulate the public’s perception of political reality to the point that someone gets elected who will bust your door down and kill you, because a bunch of people who don’t have time to make figuring out the news into a part-time job decided that that person would be able to make eggs cheaper and the other guy’s son was really into hookers or something, and also he was old and wasn’t “fixing the border.”
Just as a random example.
(To be clear, I don’t have any reason to think specifically that TikTok or China was involved in getting Trump elected. I’m just saying that allowing any adversary, whether that’s China or that’s the GOP’s social media psyop department, to have control over American’s social media landscape, will absolutely have an impact on you personally, and already has.)
Okay but now we aren’t really talking about privacy anymore, are we? We’re talking about the monopolization of social media by a few corporations as we’re siloed into platforms. Bad, for sure, but a different problem.
The election interference is coming from inside the house and privacy is only tangentially related to a larger problem.
I’ll continue to be more worried that my DMs will be used to put me in prison.
No, not legally anyway.
Damn, lemme tell the see see pee Jimmy Bob in Missisota caught on. Time to call off the wushu assassins.
Get the fuck over yourselves lmao
China is not illegally busting down US residents’ doors and killing them lol
It’s a chinese company, where else would they store the data?
The balls.
Antarctica, clearly.
I think its called a data lake, so they don’t “store” it, its rather floating around there 🤪
These lakes are formed when the cloud is saturated and gives us data precipitation.
I feel safer knowing that my data is not in a country where the company can use it against me
I feel safer knowing that my data is not in a country where the company can use it against me
Where is this country that can’t use your data against you?
In china
I’m safer knowing that my data is safe at home.
Chinese companies can use that data against you as well…
China isn’t going to come get me because Trump and his cronies don’t like my lifestyle
Exactly. I’m queer. I’m not scared of China, even if they were doing the same thing the US currently is. Because only one of those actually effects the rights I have and what I do in my day-to-day.
I do not understand how the average person does not realize that.
Countries share information though. And it is not below a fascist US to give China some nice trade deals for detailed information on queer US-Americans. Nor is it for China to accept such a deal.
This is probably only a problem with the online version. In contrast to google and openAI they, like meta, let you download the model and run it offline, where they can’t access any of this data I presume.
I’ve been running it locally using ollama, works completely offline, no keystroke data for anyone!
Yeah I scan logs and so far nothing… I still don’t trust them but I can’t tell shit either
Just use little snitch, open snitch or simple wall depending on your operating system and block the outbound connection if one ever occurs
portmaster?
I heard about little snitch, is there any benefit to it v portmaster in your opinion, off the cuff type thing?
Oh little snitch was just what I used when macOS was my main operating system. When I switched to windows I started using simple wall and I just recently was poking around for a Linux solution and I found open snitch
Right, the offline version (if you have the hardware to run it) is completely under your control, and no one can take that away from you. Honestly nice to see that happen, I thought it would take several years.
