It’s true in many ways. If I buy McDonald’s without the app I pay more for it. If I fill up my gas tank without an app like upside, I pay more for it. There are services that aren’t even available to people without modern phones (I refuse to call them smart phones). Maybe we need legislation to ensure all available discounts, services and benefits are available to customers equally regardless of how they engage services.
It costs less with the app bexause you pay with your privacy and dignity. Now tgey can A/B test your behavioural patterns like a lab rat and create models to tweedle your knobs just right for optimal value extraction at the specified satisfaction level of you type or personnal prifile.
Then they can use what they learned against non-app users that are also human. It won’t be as accurate but they’ll probably guess your profile type just from environmental and anonymizer data footprint.
From tge cctv camera, gait tracking, face recognition, automatic demographic analysis, the car model and plate number you came with, your vocabulary grade when talking to the clerk and of cpurse the treasure throve of data they can buy from your credit card company, they’ll be able to know you as well as if you had the app. They might even end up knowing you better than yourself.
I flat-out refuse to do business with any that requires I use an app. I won’t even scan a QR code for a restaurant menu; that’s my cue to go eat elsewhere.
Scan QR code. Order on your phone. Pay on your phone. Asks for a tip.
So uh, what exactly am I tipping you here for dawg?
that stuff is nice as an option. There’s a bar I go to that I can order my food and drink to the table my friends are at, while I’m walking to the place, and everything just arrives shortly after I sit down. Other people get offended about how fast I get served, it’s always amusing. I also enjoy not interacting with the staff, nothing against them, brain just doesn’t brain sometimes.
But what if I didn’t have a phone? or if I left home without it? 24/7 pocket rectangle is not natural.
Losing your phone now is like losing not just your wallet but simple access to everything.
Can confirm. Brother had his phone stuck in LA for 2 weeks.
- Hard time signing into some sites as they only had text for 2 factor
- Modern alarm clocks are awful, you only get two options and must be plugged in, so if you want 3 alarms while you’re outside of your house? Fuck you.
- Harder to track public bus routes as not only can you not call dispatch, you can’t check with the app.
There’s probably more but those affected him the most. Genuinely weird that in 2025 alarm clocks are stuck in 1985.
The funny thing about qr codes for restaurant menus to me, as someone that studied menu design. Is that actual menus are designed specific ways make the restaurant more profit and make it easier for people to find what they want. Whereas qr codes often bring one to a hastily designed list of categories which are not only less intuitive but also less manipulative. So people will end up taking longer to order less profitable dishes.
I’ve been to some that try to upsell you during the checkout process. Big pop up comes up “Add x to your order for $y.99!” Shut the fuck up!
One of these seems to be one of the best ways to order pizza from Papa John’s.
They usually have a special for a Large Pizza for pickup, and at the checkout, you can ignore the add-ons and choose “make it extra large” and it’s the best deal I’ve seen for papa johns XL pizza.
I don’t mind the whole online menu thing. It’s probably an environmental net positive, but it’s bs if they don’t have ANY physical copies for those who can’t or don’t want to for whatever reason.
If they wanted me to install something, though, that’d be a 100% instant nope.
I mean I simply refuse to as QR code phishing is a thing
You might enjoy SecScannerQR then. It makes it easier to vet QR codes by giving an option to search for the URL instead of going there directly.
Ooh. Now do iOS.
I mean you just need to audit the URL before going there.
An online menu requires power to be used (on people’s phones and the server). Is that really a minor contribution in comparison to printing paper and maybe laminating it?
Considering your average printer is a piece of shit that needs to be replaced quite often, yes, using a website is probably more energy efficient.
That and those servers are going to be running anyway. Powering a simple restaurant website is a grain of sand on the beach of internet usage.
Yeah, exactly. If you’re worried about the power draw to host a few hundred KB PDF file, you probably shouldn’t be using Lemmy, because scrolling through your feed probably uses 100x that in energy costs.
You have to remember that the shared hosting or aws, or wherever is going to be cheapest to host a simple website is also going to be very power efficient. Wasting power is just throwing away free money, and if there’s one thing corporations don’t do, it’s throw away free money.
This person has never seen the power bill for running a high-availability server with several failovers once in their lives.
In fairness neither have I - though I suspect it’s not as insignificant as others have claimed.
It’s not insignificant at all. Servers are beefy and take more power than a standard PC… a lot more. Further, failover servers mean you have to have exact copies of the same server up and available, which means you’re doubling, tripling, quadrupling power demands. Finally, you also have to have Uninterruptible Power Supplies, those take an amount of power as well.
It’s a huge power draw. I know because I have a bunch of low-power devices runnig 24/7 as microservices and it still increase my power bill and use by a lot. I regularly get letters from the power company about how I’m using like 3x the power of the average person in my type of unit.
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You can host a webserver on a Raspberry Pi. I don’t know what you’re doing with your setup but you absolutely do not need hundreds of watts to serve a few hundred KB worth of static webpage or PDF file. This website is powered by a 30 watt solar panel attached to a car battery on some guy’s apartment balcony. As of writing its at 71% charge.
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An Ampere Altra Max CPU has 128 ARM cores (the same architecture that a raspberry pi uses), with a 250 watt max TDP. That works out to about 2 watts per core. Each of those cores is more than enough to serve a little static webpage on its own, but in reality since a lot of these sites get less than 200 hits per day the power cost can be amortized over thousands of them, and the individual cores can go to sleep if there’s still not enough work to do. Go ahead and multiply that number by 4 for failover if you want, its still not a lot. (Not that the restaurant knows or cares about any of this, all this would be decided by a team of people at a massive IT company that the restaurant bought webpage hosting from).
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Not having a phone really sucks in this day and age. Imagine getting out of jail for something stupid like marijuana possession and then a parole violation due to a missed appointment. No one will hire you with your rap sheet. You live in a halfway house with a bunch of petty BS every day. And you can’t keep up with your parole demands because of how much your lack of a phone gets in your way. At the end of the day, there IS a way to succeed if you make the right choices, but shit, it’s just so much harder for some people to make the right choices when every day is crisis mode. And all because of WHAT?
If you don’t have a smart phone in the US, even temporally, your almost a second class citizen.
Then if you don’t install corporate apps on your phone, there are even more problems for you.
I remember this being true almost as soon as smart phones and QR codes were invented. There were so many things you just couldn’t do as easily if you didn’t have one. Even in 2006.
You can still live in the US without apps… For now
Any time I’m required to use an app for something that could be a website, I leave the app a one star review.
These useless apps make Linux phone adoption harder, fuck them!
that is your takeaway? You’re part of a cult if that’s really how you think.
Part of a cult for wanting more options…
Not more options, you want your option to win.
We want other options to be allowed to exist. This is “you just want everyone to be gay/trans/whatever” all over again.
Oof you’re comparing government suppression of entire classes of people to linux’ failure to attract developers to the platform… How do you not realize you’re in a cult???
Plenty of developers use Linux every day – the problem is it’s not a viable choice for users because of anti - competitive practices by Google and Apple and probably others
What does that even mean?
Most people here would be satisfied with a working website they can access from any browser or OS, mobile or desktop.
You’re an idiot or you’re trolling, I honestly can’t tell.
I’m never trolling about Linux. On Lemmy there are so many cultists that you can say the most innocuous things and it will be downvoted to oblivion or deleted for “trolling”. Maybe you don’t like calling it a cult but I get more downvoted for negative comments about Linux than other people do when they literally say Nazi things.
And then you get people like this…I mean what kind of broken prejudiced brain do you have to have to think this comparison is ok?
innocuous
Calling people “cultists” doesn’t sound very “innocuous”.
“You’re a cultist!” screamed the cultist, angry at people for using something other than what the cultist prefers.
Linux is awesome, what are you crying about?
And? Apple and Google are too big and influential as they’re. Why go attacking the little guys?
Because a Linux phone is objectively superior, duh
Ill be part of that cult
I still miss firefox os and feel sad for them not succeeding. Their app system could have become a multiplatform standard and allow us to have much more options in the smartphone market, as well as better desktop integration and interoperability :(
Early 2000 wants its internet back
Eh. The internet was always shit because of scammers and useful idiots.
Really the only way to make it not-shit is to have governments step in and protect us from what useful idiots have been conditioned to accept as normal.
Governments only serve rich people though, so we’re SOL.
It’s a cultural problem.
Get out of the stone age.
I’m probably gonna get clowned for feeding the troll, but - this comment comes off a lot more harsh if you’ve ever experienced not having access to the Internet and a smartphone or computer.
I spent the better part of 16 years of my life with no TV, MP3 player, phone, Internet, or computer - and it has negatively impacted me in immeasurable ways. I couldn’t find work, because I couldn’t apply for jobs but also I didn’t know you could do that on the Internet - I also didn’t know YouTube existed, so I missed out on learning the things I liked, and I didn’t know I was being abused because I had no way of knowing that it wasn’t normal until I got access to help, via the Internet.
I wasn’t in the stone age - if I’d had options to do any of the above without a phone or the Internet, I’d be a different person today. Shut up, mate - not everyone can afford or has the opportunity to own a smartphone and data plan (which are rare and expensive in abusive situations like my past). Making services available in places like libraries and community centers without requiring smartphones and Internet would help so many people who have no ability to use them - those people are just as human as you.
and by the way while we’re at it: if we’re effectively paywalling access to basic human rights behind an IP address and cellular radio, those should be enshrined as human rights too.
I’m in California where we have a grocery chain, Safeway. They’ve had a loyalty card for decades, which works great, gets you good deals, can be scanned by the checkout clerk or at self checkout. It also racks up points which can be used for discounts.
About 2 years ago I started seeing signs in the store offering even greater savings through the app. There will sometimes be 2 signs side by side for the loyalty card vs the app. The app is always a better deal.
So I downloaded the app and learned
- the app cannot scan your membership at self checkout, you have to be checked out by a clerk
- the app’s membership number is different from your loyalty card number and the two cannot be merged.
- because of that your points can’t be transferred to the app
It’s the dumbest thing ever. Why not just offer the better savings to the loyalty card? Isn’t that the whole point behind loyalty? I literally shop at Safeway less often now.
Loyalty cards werent a great thing either.
They werent to reward your loyalty, they were to tie your purchase history to an individual, So that information can be used and sold for marketing purposes.
It was basically the prototype for the invasive, information stealing apps we have today.
Can’t your purchases be tied to you via credit/debit card number? I mean obviously you can use cash, but I don’t see a lot of people using cash
yes, that still doesnt give the store your home address, phone number, etc etc like signing up for a rewards card does.
Does the supermarket sell the data, or use it for their own purposes
yes
“It’s the dumbest thing ever. Why not just offer the better savings to the loyalty card?”
it’s not a flaw. it’s a feature.
Food Lion (East coast, not sure if they’re national) has a fairly good loyalty program. Your loyalty card number on the physical card or in the app are the same, you can load coupons to it so they’re applied at checkout if they’re relevant, you can use their ordinary website if you don’t have/want to use a smart phone app…it’s non-cancerous.
My GF laughs because I have no loyalty cards or apps and I laugh that she has one for everything.
Loyalty rewards are bullshit.
In the US, if you don’t have the loyalty card, you’re paying more for groceries. For the stores we use, any sale prices are contingent upon using the loyalty card. This can add up to $5-$10 per order.
We used to be free from such bullshit, but some companies have started trying to bring similar systems here in Brazil, especially drugstore brands that would ask for our id number in every order to give “discounts”. Fortunately, this practice is now being investigated, and I hope the companies lose the case.
I use a loyalty card pretty often. It’s just that it is almost always another customer’s card) And in case this is not available - a barcode of some rando’s loyalty card I found online, the valid ones are often easy to find.
(Local Area Code)-867-5309
Works every time.
As I’ve been making an effort to replace apps with the browser version of the service. It’s so abundantly clear that companies don’t want you using their website.
Even if they don’t outright cripple functionality, they’ll hound you endlessly to install the app.
It’s infuriating to say the least.
Even if they don’t outright cripple functionality, they’ll hound you endlessly to install the app.
Still don’t understand the logic of doing that.
It’s like saying,
“Our website is nigh unusable, please install our app instead. We pinky promise our app works”.
It’s because you have control over your browser, but they control their app and all its trackers, ads, etc
Yep. They want you to use apps, cause all the permissions you give the app makes it much easier for them to harvest all your data for marketing and selling purposes.
That’s exactly it. Easy to block ads and trackers on a website, but more difficult or impossible on some apps.
One of the banking apps won’t show the total balance of the account unless I’m using the app. How ridiculous.
They know that a lot of people would rather have it work a little better by getting an app, if they keep reminding people it’s an option.
Even if “better” is just lack of nags.
It’s sad. We need a digital privacy law so that an app can’t be more invasive than the website.
Even if “better” is just lack of nags.
Well, they just swap nags from “download our app” to “rate our app” no matter what you do, you’ll be nagged…
everyone wants to force you to use apps instead of websites, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of apps are just websites…in a app wrapper, because normal websites and normal browsers have inbuilt protections for you.
Apps don’t.
Idiots install apps, give them the 400,000 permissions they ask for, then go on their merry way…ignorant to the fact that they just installed a data vacuum on their phone thats siphoning everything off of it to be used and sold and resold for marketing purposes… Even the phone itself its not safe, cause its sitting there, listening to your conversations, even when not on a call, to more “Accurately” spam you with bullshit.
Phones are not listening and if you have proof post it. No security researcher has ever posted this.
It’s called “Active Listening”
https://www.404media.co/heres-the-pitch-deck-for-active-listening-ad-targeting/
See:
- MindShift
- Cox Media Group (Alternative non-subscriberwalled link here)
yeah yeah, people said the same thing about google home and amazon alexa for years… until data leaks proved that was a lie, too.
[https://youtu.be/0dGqR4ue8dg](Idk i trust Snowden’s take on this over yours)
because normal websites and normal browsers have inbuilt protections for you.
Ding ding ding.
YES full support! I have and am sending this from my smartphone but I’ll stop going to your store before I download your stupid fucking app for a free mcflurry or whatever the fuck pisspoor excuse you have for installing malware on my devices.
There should be a warning label on any establishment or product that requires a smartphone to use.
How about this:
At the apartments I recently moved out of, there were no quarter slots on the washing machines. They were an app that required a bluetooth connection to pay.
So if you lived there and didn’t have a smartphone? Go fuck yourself, you don’t get to do laundry.
Unless you bothered to check the laundry room when you were looking at the apartment, you wouldn’t know. No warnings.
Tbf, my building also uses an app for laundry. However they also have a machine in the laundry rooms where you can purchase an NFC payment card and put money on it. So you can use it without the app. Is that not the case with yours? If not, that’s 100% fucked
That…
Is that not illegal where you live?
It’s not even required that apartment buildings have laundry services at all. There are commercial storefront laundromats in the US which serve as the ground floor for where people do their laundry. Until landlords are required to provide laundry, it will be hard to legislate what payment forms they must accept.
America has next to no protections for tenants, only landlords.
That depends a bit on if it was advertised or not to have a laundry room. At least here in NL it is more common to have your own washing machine than to use a shared one so having a laundry room would be an extra to start with.
Still sucks though
I understand its probably the norm where you are but why aren’t they just free to use? You pay rent…
quarter slots on the washing machines
Thank god they decided to keep these free where I live
The more insane thing here for me is the fact that there isn’t a washing machine inside your apartment.
(btw lived in such once, apparently the owner wasn’t very wealthy. We washed everything by hand)
You’ve never seen The Big Bang Theory?
No I have not, heard it is offensive and unfunny.
Well, I was merely asking because I know about shared laundry rooms being a thing in US because of that show.
It’s actually incredibly common in US apartments for laundry to be a common area.
Having a unit in your apartment means you’re at least well-to-do. Poor people can mostly go fuck themselves.
Well-to-do? That is weird, because here not having a washing machine in the apartment would be weird even for a poor person.
US hates poor people. I’m poor, I know from experience. They hold homelessness over us as a threat to keep in line.
We went from during the pandemic, treating “essential workers” as “heroes” while not increasing their pay for risking their lives, to now, straight back to how it used to be, screaming at overworked underpaid people “You’re lucky to have a job!” as they break our bodies and then discard us once our bodies are broken. I know caregivers who have broken backs because they have to lift 350lb people without the proper equipment and they don’t get paid enough to afford to live in an apartment alone.
The number of people trapped in outright dangerous relationships just to afford a place to live is too damn high. It’s a massive human rights issue, and the US will never address it under current leadership. They treat poverty as something that happens to bad people. They believe that their wealth proves that they are good people. They are myopic fools.
They fucking hate us. Anything to make us feel low, they will do.
Where I am, the median salary is around $400-$500. I know how you feel.
There was a food truck I went to one time that required you to download some app to look at their menu and order your food. They refused to accept a credit card or cash. I walked. So fucking stupid. I don’t know why people allow shit like that to exist.
Phone apps are nothing more than modern toolbars. And in case you forgot or missed this phase of the internet…
Click to win a FREE LOBSTER Dinner 🦀🦞🦐
Man I miss this era of the internet. It truly felt like a new frontier.
I clicked, but all I got was a dancing stripper and something called Conficker.
“2020 search”
Bruh someone’s grandma needs help, we need to fix this computer, it looks like it’s about to get stuck on zombo.com.
Nothing wrong with getting stuck on zombo.com. After all you can do anything there.
Peak internet wdym
Then you could agree with any barely computer-savvy person that such things should be killed with fire.
Now a lot of very competent person will try to persuade you how you are a luddite and wrong, except 5-10 years ago they’d also promise some bright tech future in addition to that, and now you’re just wrong because they can exist in that environment and like it, and you can’t.
you can’t.
Can, but refuse. Big distinction for me. I’ve lived through these arguments once already, and have watched their computers keel over and die several time from the viruses these toolbars often bring, and I will now watch as their phones do the same.
needs more sheep
I want a re-made Bonzi buddy with AI.
I don’t vouch for these, as I have not used them. But, I found this rewritten one and this one with LLM.
Could you expand on that thought a bit more? How is an app like the internet tool bars of old?
Genuinely curious. I’m a little too young to have experienced internet toolbars like the ones in your image.
Hooboy
Every service and site had their own malicious toolbar they’d ask you to install and / or* sneak it into the install for other software. They also came loaded with malware and or siphoned data from you. Older/more tech illiterate people would have browsers looking like the picture above and come to you wondering why their computer is so slow or why they keep getting viruses.
Plus the even simpler: apps are like browser “toolbars” because they’re just a veneer to collect more data, add more tracking, appear to be useful without actually benefitting the user over a simple web page
I remember toolbar days… I used to lov— sorry i admit this … Installing them … shivers for my sins
I’m shocked.
Right off the top of my head, I can mention an entire finacial institution that only exists through an app. No website, no physical locations, no nothing. It’s one app and that is it.
