Swedish government wants a back door in signal for police and ‘Säpo’ (Swedish federation that checks for spies)
Let’s say that this becomes a law and Signal decides to withdraw from Sweden as they clearly state that they won’t implement a back door; would a citizen within the country still be able to use and access Signals services? Assuming that google play services probably would remove the Signal app within Sweden (which I also don’t use)
I just want the government to go f*ck themselves, y’know?
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so much for swiss privacy
So errrm Sweden and Switzerland are two different countries.
Lol
Oh how quickly them western values collapse.
You can still download the APK from their repository, install it, and use signals built in censoring-evasion setting as far as I know.
They are even working on self updating app feature IIRC.
This is why I donate to signal. I know there are decentralized alternatives but I can barely get my family and friends to use Signal.
I have gotten a few family members and friends to use signal as I stated to them that this is the only way to get ahold of me. Other than this, you won’t. And because of me, they decided to do so :P some haven’t, but its up to them to decide.
I have gotten a few family members and friends to use signal as I stated to them that this is the only way to get ahold of me.
Same. It’s the default app for everyone I’m close to.
100% agree with you and I do the same.
Signal has done a very good job of making it easy to get started with the app. The alternatives (Matrix, Simplex, Briar etc.) are all more awkward.
I can barely get my family and friends to use Signal.
Years of lobbying ✊
At least you all can get your family to use it.
I can’t even get my spouse to use it unless she thinks what we are talking about might be illegal where we are (it usually isn’t)
I’ve tried convincing family to use it, but all that happens is I just never hear from them until I see them in person or they call me.
They don’t even feel the need to back up their Amazon Kindle collection before they get cutoff from it… Thousands of dollars wasted if they ever lose access to the account.
Yup and months of premium instant 24/7 tech support to ensure the slightest thing doesn’t return them to default apps in the beginning !
Really? I got my family to use it with a simple explanation of why, and why they shouldn’t use other things. None of them are very tech-literate. And also simply saying it’s where they can reach me.
I feel like this is a you problem, you don’t explain it well to them and make them understand why they should use it.
I’m not going to say it’s not a me-problem, but disregarding the fact that if it was that simple it would be more widespread amongst people is making it seem as if we don’t try seriously and downplays the effort many like myself put in.
I care about privacy and about my close ones (as many here do) and I explain the issue to them in a nice way so to not come across as a pushy salesman, and they readily admit that they don’t want to put the effort in (effort as in learning something new, upkeeping with multiple apps, etc).
It’s not that I don’t know why they don’t switch immidiately - I know why. It’s simply that they don’t. It’s okay not to switch as long as you know the risks and I’ve explained the risks and they seem to understand it, but it’s not enough to get everyone to switch.
If life was that simple with everyone (I know some switch without hesitation) the world would be completely different.
You can explain to a decent normal person the imminent doom we are facing with climate change and they may understand it very well, but they still wont give up on using their car and switch to public transport immidiately, because it is an inconvenience.
I highly recommend Obtainium to anyone who wants to keep their apps updated without needing a central report (save for the APKs that only publish on f-droid etc)
Wherever a service with encryption exists any government in the world thinks they need to be the special child with the access to the contents.
E2E with privately generated and held keys, have you published your PGP public key yet?
E2E with privately generated and held keys, have you published your PGP public key yet?
Exactly. You can’t stop secure encryption.
I remember in the very old days of the internet when only the US had strong encryption and thought it was some gotcha. They labeled it a weapon to prevent overseas export. Phil Zimmerman created PGP, lobbed the source into a book (protected under 1st amendment) then shipped it overseas.
If strong encryption exists and people want to use it, you’re just not going to be able to stop them.
Reminds me of the story of immigrants who tatooed the algorithm on their back. It was illegal to send them back.
I wish PGP was easier to use. The barrier to entry is way too high for everyday use.
There’s a function built into Thunderbird to create keys, and I think publish the public cert directly to the MIT repo.
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This is why you should prefer a better protocol like SimpleX
What are you talking about?
Centralized communications are susceptible to government controls, while decentralized systems are more difficult to stop, like Lemmy for example.
let’s say that signal is magically blocked in Sweden, can you still use Molly?
https://droidify.eu.org/app/?id=im.molly.app or https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android
No, probably not. They both speak the same protocol and talk to the same servers.
Unless the block was a app store distribution restriction only
It probably is/was/will be just the app store.
It would be very weird if it was - when a “ban” happens, at least here, they block the website. I doubt Sweden would fight even basic Wireguard/OpenVPN tho, so I don’t see it as a big problem. The bigger problem would be carriers denying registration confirmation SMS, which is yet another downside of the phone number requirement.
Even if it’s not Molly could implement Tor or any sort of bridge to bypass these restrictions (such as Signal themselves)
Yes! Because unlike stock Signal (which, last time I tried, restricts you to their own proxy implementation), you can use whatever Socks proxy you want. Including Tor. Yeah, sure, you could use a VPN with Signal - but for people who want a persistent connection, having a VPN on 24/7 would be inconvenient. Such a frustrating part of the official app…
I think Signal made it so Iranian could use the app when their government blocked it through proxy. https://signal.org/blog/help-iran-reconnect/
Yeah, I know that - I am myself in a situation where we need increasingly obfuscated evasion solutions. However, my issue is not in that it developed such a proxy - but rather, that it doesn’t give an option to use a different one. For example, I have my proxy set up - so why does Signal need its own separate proxy rather than using the one everything else already uses? Why can’t it use Tor without torifying the whole device’s traffic?
Not to mention that dedicated solutions (XRay and such) are focused on censorship evasion while for Signal stealthy proxies are comparatively more of an afterthought. So there is a chance it wouldn’t be able to evolve fast enough to keep up with the censors.
P.S. I think in Iran, there was also a bigger issue - the SMS codes for registration just didn’t arrive.
And I want a better future. Guess we’re both gonna be disappointed ain’t we
Only Swedish backdoor I want is…
Ah the ol’ Kingsmen ending.
Why swedes, why?
The current government promised they would be “tough on crime” but have been largely unsuccessful in reducing gang related criminality. Now they are trying to find new tools to get to the leaders of those gangs. Sadly, they don’t understand technology.
Signal’s american and their infrastructure’s based on american Amazon, so there’s that…
You could use a VPN i guess.They will probably just show message to Swedish ip addresses and state that they cannt provide you with the binary as you are using a Swedish ip.
Something very clear to say use a VPN 😉
Stop this!
Would anyone accept if the government installed a door into your house that only they have the key to?! Just in case they need to come in and avoid kicking the normal door when I am not home…
Governments have long wanted backdoors on secure private communication, and so long as we have an ownership class, they always will.
And backdoors will always be more useful to hackers, industrial spies and terrorists than they are these departments of state looking to ensure national security (or watch for proletariat unrest. We’re already pissed.)
And the private sector will always route around these backdoors, possibly by modding the client or offering new services that are still secure.
States should get used to disappointment. Investigation bureaus should prepare for going dark. Once upon a time they had to rely on detective work rather than asking Google whose phones were near the incident or what web-surfers were asking questions about the circumstances pre-hoc.
it always bugs me how governments who demand backdoors continuously fail to realize that even if they backdoor the encryption of Signal: PGP, or more similarly to Signal, Pidgin+OTR and/or OMEMO all still exist, are well maintained and are designed to work on top of insecure channels. This isn’t gonna be the way to catch actual bad actors, they’ll all just get SimpleX or Pidgin or any other number of things and continue communicating and “going dark”.
…not to mention that Signal’s source code is open, so even if they compromise the Signal client, you can just switch to Molly or build an older version - or if the server is compromised, you can run your own with the backdoor disabled or stripped out. This is a zero-sum-game all the way down.
