Weak platform my ass. Half of the US population is simply too brainwashed to even comprehend what Kamala offered them.
Other then not Trump (a fair offer to be honest) what did she offer voters? She seemed to run on a status quo platform.
Half the population can’t accept basic reality anymore.
Trump lost votes from last election. Kamela lost a fuck ton more. No one became a trump voter, kamela offered nothing to the left and expected support. Do I wish my fellow leftists would of voted for self preservation? Fuck yeah I do. But at the end of the day it’s the candidate at fault. And Kamala did everything in her fucking power to lose the left vote. It’s the same every god damn time with the Democrats. You want something to focus your anger at? Focus it at the party fighting trump 2024 with Trump’s 2020 border wall, military, immigration ass policies.
I doubt very much it was leftists refusing to vote for a black woman liberal against a fascist when those 15 million turned out for an old white man liberal.
People forget that nationwide elections are ordinarily determined by infrequent voters to begin with.
It wasn’t high-propensity voters voting for trump, third party, or abstaining, it was ordinary non-political americans who didn’t see a point in voting for a status-quo center-right candidate.
People have been screaming at democrats since at least 2008 that they need more progressive, more radical policies, and they’ve repeatedly avoided addressing those concerns. Trump ran in 2016 as a moderate. He came out on the left of fucking hillary clinton on the war in Iraq and interventionism. She lost to trump because he maneuvered to the left of her, and democrats still have not fucking learned.
Democrats need to let go of their moderate progenitors and re-build their base from the bottom left. They’re leaving millions of voters on the table because they keep hamstringing themselves on a bygone era of popular neoliberalism, and there’s nobody left to blame now but the party itself.
She lost to trump because he maneuvered to the left of her
Nobody voted for Trump because he was “more left than Hillary”. That’s not why anyone voted for him.
i believe what he meant was that “trump won despite being on left of hillary” which goes against the dnc propaganda at that time that sanders was not electable because america will never vote for leftist views. add that hillary was stupid (or corrupt) enough to not give anything to her voter base while trump did. shows how out of touch dnc had become.
Your opinion is valid but, with no offense intended, i wasn’t talking to you
That’s not how this works. It’s a social platform. You talk to all of us.
Or not
They absolutely were compelled by his opposition to international conflict and intervention - which was a huge part of Clinton’s legacy as SoS.
I personally know many who wanted the US out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, and trusted Trump over Hillary to do it. I know no-one who openly wanted the same and voted for her. I myself voted third-party the last two elections before this year, and Biden has only escalated our entanglements in middle-eastern conflics.
Jesus, just look at Biden’s rhetoric on Israel and Iran. Its downright bizarely pro-war, pro-genocide(in its failure to remotely acknowlege such is happening), and absolutely tone-deaf to what voters want.
The fact that you yourself have now said what you’ve said on the topic proves the opposite of your claims. You know no conservatives today, and you mock the notion that anyone is against the war more than you point out any reason anyone should have voted for Harris over Trump.
Muslims were a DNC lock-in vote till now, and absolutely no-one failed to warn them that was changing.
RCV
Eh.
We’ve had it since 1919 in Australia, yet we still have the same two parties right and righter.
RCV alone is not the answer.
You’re right. Most people will still vote for the primary candidates, but in an election like this past one where we could have had Harris and a white man on the Dem ticket, RCV could have swung the vote blue.
And no, alone it will not fix the problems, but it’s a key change. Yall have around 20% of offices held by third party or independent. US has none or close to none.
That’s because Australia has a system like the US electoral college, but even more granular.
Me: About to buy my first home.
Also me: Trump is going to be president??? Fuuuuuuck. May as well just light this big pile of money on fire!
Aw hell…doesn’t matter anyways. Pennies don’t melt…
Also me: Trump is going to be president??? Fuuuuuuck. May as well just light this big pile of money on fire!
Invest in prison stocks. Watch them go to the moon.
Not only pennies do melt, they are more valuable once molten. It’s just illegal to do it.
…well shit. I spent my teenage years selling weed. I didn’t know I could make money burning things!
Ones from 1982 and earlier are much more valuable when melted down.
American tears, so salty right now
Yeah buddy, this is not going to affect the rest of the world at all!
Yes, drag’s friends who are going to die are crying. You’re welcome to make as much fun of them as you like.
I won’t vote for who supports genocide. Trump may not be better in this regard but at least I won’t reward to those who already aided in it. Next time they should learn to do better.
Cool and we get genocide 2.0 instead
In what way? Israel already has a free check and a shield to do whatever they want.
Trump has promised, in VERY few uncertain terms, to deliver a genocide here in the US. Mass deportations of immigrants were one of his big “to-dos” on day one, including deputizing National Guard and police units to assist ICE. This is combined with an AG hopeful who wants to “see Democrat politican’s bodies dragged through the streets”, and Steve Bannon, who helped author a document that basically plans to outlaw homosexuality, being transgender, and (probably) conversion camps, if not outright death camps. You can look all this up, it’s all been well reported on.
This is on top of Trump being close friends with Netanyahu, so congrats - by not voting, you voted for two genocides.
There won’t be a next time. Congratulations, shit stain. You get to pay yourself on the back for your “morals” while the country burns to the ground.
I say “morals” because fucking obviously the moral thing to do is prevent Nazi Germany 2.0 from happening. But no. You get to pretend like you’re a good person. But you’re not. You let fascists take control and countless people will die at the hand of non-voters like you. You and everyone like you are deplorable in every sense of the word and you have no right to claim moral superiority.
Well, the really morally superior thing would be to vote for Jill Stein (or another anti-genocide candidate). Sitting out the election is abdicating responsibility.
Jill Stein is pro-genocide. She’s a liar who supports the opposite of all of her proposed policies. She was only in the election to hurt Harris and help Trump. Now that Trump’s won, she’s going to disappear for the next 4 years and do nothing to accomplish her supposed goals.
Sure, blame the voters for the lack of choice they were given. That seems very productive and totally not just an excuse so you don’t have to admit that the Democrats are responsible for enabling genocide.
Two people can both be 100% to blame for something.
I have much respect for drag and don’t disagree with that point in general, but in this particular case I must protest.
Democracy is a process for legitimizing a government. The voters cannot fail at voting, they can only be failed by elected parties that don’t faithfully represent their interests once in power. The responsibility is entirely incumbent on the parties themselves, as they get to pick how they manipulate public sentiment into supporting them and the voters have no agency in the decisions those parties make.
Drag thinks the voters can fail at voting. Drag could visit the Proud Boys annual general meeting and propose that drag should be the leader of the Proud Boys. Drag could present a 17-point plan to reduce misogyny and queerphobia in the organisation, support mutual aid structures in the community, improve members’ access to mental health services, and everyone there would rather shoot drag dead than vote for drag. Why? Because proud boys are neo-nazis, and they want to be lead by nazis.
American has decided that it wants to be lead by nazis too. This wouldn’t have happened if everyone in the USA was an informed, highly educated, intelligent person of empathy. Drag was excited about not electing a fascist to the white house. America wasn’t, because America isn’t that well-informed, intelligent or empathetic. Harris should have recognised that Americans are fascism-apologists who need more motivation than she gave them to vote. AND Americans shouldn’t have been fascism-apologists who need more motivation to vote. Either group could have solved the problem if they were better. We got a fascist dictator because they both suck.
Nazi Germany 2.0 is already happening. Palestinians are being genocided as we speak. But it seems their blood is too cheap for you to care.
You’re so delusional anyways about your 2.0 world. Don’t blame me, blame the democrats for supporting and committing genocide. Maybe do something about that first?
I voted, so keep assuming.
This is how I feel, thank you for putting it eloquently. These “moral high ground” people are no better than the MAGA they enabled. It’s sickening.
You are complicit. You’re not above this.
So I completely understand why people would feel this way, given that Trump won, it must stand to reason that people voted for him more, right? Except that isn’t the case. Trump got fewer votes this election than the last one.
Let me also just add here: Fuck Trump, fuck the GOP, fuck all of the fascists that supported and voted for him. I wish that Hell was real so that they could all go there.
But the reason he won isn’t because people voted for him more, it’s because Kamala’s platform didn’t inspire democrat voters to actually go and vote for her.
You could totally say that in the two party system, choosing not to vote is the same as voting for Trump, but I think that’s not true - a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.
You may not understand why someone would be motivated to participate in activism, but not motivated to vote - and I completely understand that too. People who are into electoral politics don’t really grasp how others feel about it.
There are a number of reasons why that could be, but I would say that probably chief among them are the fact that she represented a status quo rather than a shift towards socialism, and because she refused to take a firm position against the ongoing genocide in Gaza
Of course, you’re free to believe as you wish, and I’m not trying to change your mind really - I’m just trying to add a bit of nuance and help explain what happened.
Maybe the response I got from my Mom is telling
- she’s a surprisingly liberal boomer
- she understands Trump is unfit to lead anything and would never vote for him
- she was unhappy voting for Harris
When I asked why and fact checked, two of her three reasons were false and third was “misleading”.
So even with someone whose vote was always going to be Democrat, the flood of misinformation and lies prevailed.
For my brother who is conservative, I didn’t get into it since there was no point in starting an argument. However he dismissed a lot of things Trump said as “he’s not serious, he’ll never do that.”
a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump
That’s an intention, a feeling. It’s not an action.
and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.
That’s great, but it isn’t voting.
These people chose to do nothing about Trump winning the election, and then take on a fascist dictatorship with banners and guns. That’s a great idea if you want a civil war. That’s a great idea if you think that making people suffer and making them see their friends and family die will radicalise them into revolutionary soldiers.
Is that the plan, or do the people who didn’t vote just not have a plan? Were they acting on their emotions? Did they think that it was Kamala’s job to make them feel motivated to resist fascism, because the prospect of voting against a fascist dictatorship just isn’t a sweet enough deal on its own?
It was a choice between neo-fascist now or neo-fascist later, DragonFucker.
Can you not at least see how people might want to try to find other paths forwards and actually make changes?
I was all for telling folks to vote prior to the election, but I can hugely empathise and understand why they didn’t.
Kids in cages, anti-Trans laws, bombs to Israel and Saudi Arabia have only gone up from Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden. The system is the same, it just gets to mask off a bit when Trump is at the helm.
Drag will reiterate drag’s point that we are now facing the prospect of actually making changes, as you say, against a fascist dictatorship. That’s harder than against a liberal capitalist state. If we’re Sisyphus and America is the boulder, then these people just decided to let the boulder roll downhill and smash into a lube factory. That makes it harder to make changes, not easier.
What is the plan in this decision?
I think we might differ on how bad we think the status quo of neoliberal US is, DragonFucker.
It may be harder, certainly more violent.
But maybe a wider range of society will be more motivated to take direct action.
Edit: and yes, my theory does explain Nazi Germany. A weak, capitalist state where Socialists and Communists were gaining ground electorally led to far right non-winners given power because that was more palatable than ceeding more ground to the Left. And after that it left global capitalism in a stronger state than ever.
But maybe a wider range of society will be more motivated to take direct action.
Drag has trans friends who live in the USA. Drag does not think their lives are an acceptable price to pay for this plan of yours.
I don’t think their lives are either, DragonFucker.
But Harris wasn’t going to make them safer or even stop things getting worse. Ask them if they felt safer in 2023 or in 2018.
Your anger is better focused at Trump and Co in particular, and the US government in general than regular random people on the street.
As for me, I wish I had a plan. I’d just assumed Harris was going to win, but here we are.
I think that if Kamala had been elected, then we would have had four more years of things getting worse under neoliberalism, before getting a fascist in 2028. america is kind of a fascist country, it’s just now that the american people are experiencing it for themselves rather than just subjecting it on others
Four more years for drag’s friends to live and find a plan to escape the country. Drag thinks that’s a good thing. Do you think it’s a bad thing?
I have the utmost sympathy for you and your friends and I hope you’re all okay, and I want to send you as much of my love and support as I can. I wish you all nothing but the best and I hope the world turns. Stay strong, stay hopeful, and remember who the true enemy is, the ruling class, the billionaires, the media, the politicians who sold our future for $$$.
And the voters who chose this.
Maybe, but it’s hard to believe the cult leader will be active in four more years, and so far no one else has whatever power he has to attract his followers.
Also, I’ll take four more years of the country functioning
The most consequential issue for voters this past election was the economy. People are feeling inflation, whether that’s through food prices, rent prices, or all of the above.
Harris didn’t campaign to that. Instead, she catered to families with children - a diminishing subsect of society - and small businesses. Yes she advocated for a first time home subsidy, but no young person believes they’ll truly have enough money to own a home in their lifetime.
Harris ignored the working class. And so they ignored her. Plain and simple. A political party has to fix its constituents’ problems, or at least lie about it. She did neither.
Stop making this about voters.
No, what you stated is why red voted red. This race wasn’t lost because red voted red. This race was lost because blue didn’t vote. The numbers are very clear it’s a little more red than there was last time but there was a lot less blue
Defending the economy when we all know our paychecks are shrinking relative to rising costs wasn’t a wise move by the Democrats. The Republicans didn’t offer any sane and sensible solutions, scapegoating immigrants is absurd, but they acknowledged that the economy isn’t doing well for a lot of people and that actually resonated with many.
Yes, you’re right, it’s 100% Harris’ fault.
She didn’t take the steps needed to make people care enough about stopping a fascist dictatorship.
And it’s the voters’ fault that they needed to be made to care about stopping a fascist dictatorship? They should have already not wanted their friends to die.
They are both 100% to blame. Because blame isn’t a limited resource.
Drag made the following meme in response to the comments in this post: https://lemmy.nz/post/16146432
We gotta look Canadian when we go out of the country now.
It’s going to be fun when it’s Americans getting banned from international events.
“vote for a ceasefire” is the ceasefire in the room with us now? Because I’m not surprised people DIDNT vote for someone who was the fucking president but refused to pressure to end a war because it could be used as leverage in an election campaign.
Do you think Kamala Harris was the president, or do you think people are upset that voters didn’t vote for Joe Biden?
I’m pretty sure she vowed to not be silent on Gaza, and then didn’t really bring it up until 2? days before the election? Even if she said somewhere about ceasefire she clearly didn’t mean it.
The president and I are working around the clock every day to get that ceasefire deal done
- Kamala Harris
now is the time to get a ceasefire deal and get the hostage deal done.
- Kamala Harris
We’re not going to stop in terms of putting that pressure on Israel and in the region including Arab leaders
- Kamala Harris
it is time for this war to end and end in a way where Israel is secure, all the hostages are released, the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can exercise their right to freedom, dignity and self-determination.
- Kamala Harris
My bad. I guess she mentioned it more than twice.
But in my defense I don’t think I need to remember all the empty words. You’re working with the president around the clock for a ceasefire and the outcome is an 8 billion military aid package for Israel and further escalations by Isreal? She can say all the thoughts and prayers she wants but it doesn’t change that the administration she’s a part of made no progress on a ceasefire.
If you think she would’ve done a ceasefire after being elected you’re huffing pure copium. If a ceasefire was on the card the ceasefire would’ve happened already . You don’t run on “I know our party is currently in office and can pressure for a ceasefire and we can’t or won’t do anything, however if you elect me then next year we’ll do something.”
Just look at the rally from where the first 2 quotes are from. They’re actually part of the same quote and I’ll add the quote in full.
I have been clear: now is the time to get a cease-fire deal and get the hostage deal done. Now is the time, and the president and I are working around the clock every day to get that cease-fire deal done and bring the hostages home. So, I respect your voices, but we are here to now talk about this race in 2024.
Translation. We hear you but we don’t want to address it.
That’s not at all what happened.
The donkey showed people the positions and the people sat at home.
The same assholes as usual voted Republican and that’s how Trump won.
People were lazy, disinterested, and not motivated to vote for the incumbent party.
The problem wasn’t Harris or her platform, it was that more than half of American voters are fucking idiots. Massive public stupidity is a problem no politician and no platform can cure. We’ve spent more than half a century addicting ourselves to entertainment and convenience. We need everything presented to us in memes now. America collectively has shit for brains, so we’re going to have a sack of shit for President. Congrats y’all.
Missouri passed a $15 minimum wage law that goes into effect in 2026, and voted to keep abortion legal. Missouri also in general voted for Trump.
People are not the issue. Americans are mostly in favor of a lot of progressive policies. Democrats however failed to package and frame those in a way that would swing voters, however.
I will never stop blaming the Democratic party over the American people.
Fuckin a
So when will the Democratic Party unveil it’s grand plan to actually RESIST all this fascism?
Does anyone have a schedule, perhaps?
They already did. The voters decided they didn’t like the plan. That’s it for democratic methods. American democratically chose not to resist fascism. https://theonion.com/america-defeats-america/
Go buy a gun and join an anarchist organisation. You won’t get help with the democrats, they tried and were shut down.
They already did.
What plan was that? “Vote harder?”
The voters decided they didn’t like the plan.
Yeah, I also dislike plans that simply go, “trust me, bro.”
The plan was that Harris would win the election and Trump wouldn’t be president. That’s resisting fascism, by denying it supreme executive power.
The voters said no thanks.
That’s resisting fascism
Bullshit. It does absolutely nothing except put a Dem in the White House for another four years and does absolutely nothing about all the fascism.
Nothing.
That’s not a plan, that’s business as usual.
Well okay, if you think there’s no difference between a Harris presidency and a fascist dictatorship, then this comic is about you. Congratulations, you’ve appeared in a work of (badly drawn) art.
then this comic is about you.
So you literally assumed business as usual could stop fascism?
I suggest you wake up. Fast.
No. We weren’t talking about stopping fascism, we were talking about resisting fascism. You’ve changed the subject to a much bigger problem and assumed drag wouldn’t notice your switcheroo.
Do you really think Harris’ platform was all that liberal?
Did you listen to her DNC speech, where she insisted on having the strongest military in America’s history, not mentioning Palestinians plight in Gaza and the West Bank, and promising to have a Republican in her cabinet?
Harris actively chased after the right and their voting base right up to election day. Democrats did nothing to counter Trump. If they had, they would have actually followed through on the Tim Walz pick and promulgated actual, progressive policies to win over the self-interest of their base.
Harris using a stick to get her base to vote was not enough. People need carrots. Her campaign was utter shit man.
I also agree she was more centrist than I prefer, but I don’t understand people unhappy she’s not further left, choosing to take a hard right and flying off the deep end. This is not like Columbus thinking the world is a sphere so you can head right to get left. Or maybe it is somehow, either way Haitians came out the worst
Straight up Reddit tier cope from liberals this last week. If you wanted to win don’t turn away 15 million people from your base to pander to a bunch of MAGA voters who were always picking trump regardless. Absolute fucking morons.
Drag agrees that Harris’s campaign sucked, and Harris is to blame. Drag also thinks America voted for a fascist, and America is to blame. The great thing about blame is that two people can both be 100% at fault.
Harris is a fascist, you lib
Found Bob Dole’s Lemmy account!
A pimp named Slickback
A Pimp Named Slickback is more progressive than too many people on both sides, and basically all of the DNC itself. Fuck all that “homies before hoes” non-sense. The corpos and military-industrial complex are homies, btw.