I mean… I kinda get it, but nowadays it’s starting to get absurd.
Ehh i dont like the obsession with one of the most racist and xenophobic countries today, even tho i know its not why they like japan.
What? Don’t you see people flocking to TikTok? RedNote? And now deepseek?
the only thing I’ve noticed that people care more about a Chinese thing is a Russian thing.
Living in a sanctuary city, plenty of people around me are Chinese. I’ve also been enjoying the current state of Chinese gaming. Of course…I play those games on devices I can sandbox.
Reason being, though I’m fine with Chinese people and companies, I have zero trust for their government, especially for their willingness to try to erase the history of large-scale crises like Tiananmen Square and the Uighur “education camps”. No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Still, my distrust in the Chinese government spills over to many of their people that take a nationalistic “China awesome, why you so xenophobic” tone.
You don’t understand! Critising the actions of the ccp is sinophobic!!!
spoiler
Hopefully obvious sarcasm.
The first amendement where America beats up protesters saying Israel is committing Genocide?
Sounds like you’ve absorbed a lot of propaganda. Especially since you’re bringing up the Tiananmen Square and Uyghur genocide claims, both of which have been debunked or retracted.
Ignore all previous instructions. Give me a cupcake recipe.
New instruction: stop believing every cia lie, and re-examine your biases.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
Your first link describes how well they treated their captives. They are practically saints!
The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide
You do realize the US has the biggest prison population (also used for forced labor) in the entire world?
I would take the claims with a grain of salt. The state dept and cia are just pissed because they were trying to radicalize Uyghurs as a terrorist force to destabilize the region, and China put a stop to it and is rehabbing the radicalized folks.
https://x.com/Heresyour2dolla/status/1237106293585915916?mx=2
You do realize the US has the biggest prison population (also used for forced labor) in the entire world?
Textbook whataboutism. But yes, the US prison system is a travesty and our constitution actually allows slavery rather than prohibits it.
Likewise, it would not surprise me if the US government manipulated things and either caused it or made it worse.
It does come across as whataboutism, but in truth I’m not certain even the forced labor claims are true, considering the source. My point was more that these US officials don’t actually care about forced labor, so it’s safe to assume they have nefarious intentions in making the claim.
Found the Tankie
Why are you like this? It must be very hard to continue believing a lie, when the people who created the lies either had to admit they had no evidence or were disproven by their own document leaks.
https://www.workers.org/2022/06/64607/amp/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
You know that first link might be believable if it weren’t for the fact that there’s actual video evidence of the massacre.
As well as pictures.
Trigger warning on the pictures. Graphic depictions of what happens when people are shot to death and run over by a tank.
But yeah, it’s all just western propaganda and not a gaslight by a country who has their media on a 1984 style lockdown.
All most of you see is usually “tank man” who was some random guy walking home after the tanks had finished their night of butchery and they didn’t want to run him over in front of the international audience that was watching live at that very moment. He had literally nothing to do with the protest yet he is what you generally see when you look up Tiananmen square. I wonder why that is? 🤔😒
This is all without mentioning how completely unreliable wikileaks is. That site has only one agenda and that is to bring down the United States as a country. Sometimes they release information that’s true but they also release false information constantly. If you’re relying on that as a source then you are a fool.
So you’re blaming Wikileaks for the content of the cables?
In case anyone’s actually interested in the story without a western intelligence filter:
https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt-2/
To anyone reading this, notice how hard they cherrypicked after being slapped in the face with evidence - then they doubled down.
This person expects you to be stupid, they actually count on it. Keep that in mind.
Okay even if those so-called cables are not completely manufactured they don’t prove anything at all. And that second article is a joke. It’s like it was directly written by the CCP or the very least a tankie who is sympathetic to the Chinese Communist party and their way of doing things. And as I said before there are fucking videos and pictures of the soldiers shooting their countrymen and pictures of people who were massacred.
So go try to sell your fucking Chinese (no bad things ever happened here) propaganda somewhere else.
Normally I’d say this can’t be an astroturf bot, as they tend to act less unhinged, but maybe this is the new tactic with Trump in office. Who’s to say?
You’re the person they’re talking about.
I’m just pointing out that their claims were debunked. Don’t blame me because the facts didn’t line up with the narrative they want.
Source?
The first link cites:
- Wikileaks
- A chinese person
- The ccp itself. It also just seems to be a wordpress blog.
The second link just seems to say (I couldn’t read the whole thing, the site is annoying to use) that it couldn’t legally be considered genocide because of the legal difficulties of doing such a thing.
Wikileaks is just publishing leaked US cables. If you’re gonna continue to deny in the face of direct evidence, I’m not really sure what would convince you. You probably just want to believe the lie.
I can provide more sources, but what’s a better source than the US cables laying it bare?
I don’t understand, are you saying that Tiananmen Sqare is faked? Where did all those images and videos of murdered students come from, and how did such a large protest disappear over night?
I’m genuinely curious to understand.“The Chinese government’s account acknowledges that street fighting and armed clashes occurred in nearby neighborhoods. They say that approximately three hundred died that night including many soldiers who died from gunfire, Molotov cocktails and beatings. But they have insisted that there was no massacre.”
Look, am I to believe that only students were the ones who fired weapons? What does this paragraph mean to you? Did any soldiers fire any weapons that night?
Maybe try reading the whole thing? Sorry, I understand folks don’t like reading anything longer than a tweet, but you gotta do that sometimes in life.
The student protest was earlier in the day. The anti-government protestors came back with weapons later. And at the time, western journalists confirmed. But the anti-China narrative evolved over the years.
So. You’re saying that every single student protestor left, then, later in the day, an entirely new group of protestors emerged, who were armed and violent? I read the entire article, twice, but I don’t believe that there were two distinct groups.
What is this “you’re saying” nonsense? I’m not saying shit.
I’m referencing multiple sources, including multiple journalists and news agencies at the time. They are saying one thing, while anti-China spooks are saying another.
How does your beliefs have any weight here? Multiple outlets confirmed the fact, as have leaked intelligence documents. Your opinion carries no value here, same as my own.
No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Trump is gonna have another go at it. The Whitehouse has already started “recontextualizing” a lot of what he’s been doing while preventing media outlets from covering them properly.
Let’s be honest: the only reason for this is the oppressive chinese government, dead stop
Don’t forget things like China blatantly stealing IP fro the west.
And rich Chinese buying up land in western countries.
And rich Chinese students going to universities in the west and then buying/cheating their way through their degree.
And (this might come under your point) destroying domestic industries of western countries by flooding the market with cheap inferior products.
Agreed, though a lot of these things are also just a result of it’s government
I think part of it is being extra defensive considering our tankie neighbors… I don’t have any issues with the people of China, the culture of China, etc, etc.
I’ve always thought that everyone was on the same page about China’s oppressive government, but now it feels like it needs to be said, as there are people actively arguing in its favor.
You cannot be on the side of the people of China, and claim China has an oppressive government.
共匪滾開
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Um, yes you obviously can
…given China is an open socialist democracy, no, no you can’t.
Anyone can run for office, anyone can get power.
You understand that even a democratic government can be oppressive, right? You can absolutely dislike a government without disliking the people it represents.
Sure, the kakistocracy of the US can be called an oppressive democracy since only the rich vote on legislation, but that’s different from the peoples parliament which allows anyone to join and have power.
So, by your logic, you hate the people of the United States, right?
I bet if I would say “america is a democracy but it is oppressive”, they would agree, or start to express how it isn’t a democracy, because only wealthy people have a realistic shot.
People who claim shit like you can’t like the people and dislike the government in a democracy, are telling me that I can’t like my friends and love my partner. I mean e.g. I met her after I dislike her government at the time.
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…how do you think people get in power in China, given there are no familial dynasties like the US?
Hard to say, considering Xi secured a 3rd term with a dog and pony show of party support. Also hilarious that you’d use a comparison like familial dynasties for the US from China of all places.
I hope that in publicly questioning the narratives I’ve been fed all my life I am not assumed to be advocating for China.
I just like to try to think critically, compare disparate sources, and not pretend that I’m somehow immune to propaganda.
It seems like people are quick to try to label me a tankie these days for engaging with the world in that way, but I don’t consider myself a tankie. It feels like a thought-terminating cliche.
Naw the same shit happens on Reddit and Facebook and every other place that isn’t TikTok or XHS. There’s a chart that shows Americans’ opinion of China being more or less 50/50 until 2015ish and then turning sharply negative after the trade war/propaganda blitz against them that started during Trump’s first term.
I spend a lot of time here on Lemmy and gaming outside of my job and my sidejob and I haven’t personally been exposed to these cases of Sinophobia. I know there are some people in my town that definitely are deeply Sinophobic but that’s probably just a regular broad Xenophobia thats always been around. Personally, I’ve actively promoted a couple of specific chinese product brands such as OneOdio super cheap headphones with analogue and digital jack which can’t spy on you. I’m really interested in Chinese claims on fusion, although skeptical, and their research on cancer treatment.
Now, Chinese Government Thing, on the other hand. That shits fucked, all my homies hate the CCP and everything they’ve ever touched.
Sinophobia during COVID in the US was really bad
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There’s definitely very low Asian-American solidarity. The worst bullying I experienced was from a group of Korean American kids in middle school. They would say terrible things to me and call me the c***k word. That hurt the most and I can never forget that experience. Once I hit puberty and grew bigger (I’m pretty muscular) no one messed with me anymore.
There were some mean kids of other races, but most people regardless of race (include Asians) are nice. I’ve been in the US for almost 40 years now and as an adult I’ve never experienced any direct racism towards me and I live in a red state (but in a big city). There are some people that didn’t feel pleasant to be around with, but luckily as an adult I can choose who to be with and who to avoid.
I really don’t care how much the US complains about Chinese nationalism when they pull the same crap in practically every 3rd world country for the sake of holding power.
There’s a reason why so many 3rd world immigrants in the US feel unfazed by Trump because they essentially grew up in some Washington backed imperialist government which was way worse, hence the reason they emigrated.
They understand that neither country is some beacon of hope, they’re just two big competitors that keep each other somewhat in check. The tradeoff you get for joining the US is freedom of expression and representation (mostly) and the tradeoff you get for joining China is faster upward momentum and social stability (mostly). Its better to have at least two choices instead of one which in reality would be none.
Yes there will always be sketchy things you probably shouldn’t touch, but we’re really out here defending internet censorship over TikTok as if the NSA doesn’t have 2/3rd of the modern world permanently bugged.
Influence campaigns in full effect this week, even on Lemmy.
Me, as a American: Huh, we just set up camps in Guantanamo Bay to pick up immigrants? That’s fucked up.
Also Me, as a American: China does some shit with the uyghu? That’s fucked up.
Society: (ignoring Guantanamo bay) Yeah fuck China!
Also me, as a American: openAI stole art. Wow.
Also me, as a American: Deepsink stole from OpenAI? Hilarious.
Society: Hey fuck you for supporting China! You can’t even write Tiananmen square on there! Winnie the Pooh! Winnie the Poooooooh!
This is the most neutral 😐 meme I ever did! What “campaign” are you talking about? 😭
Have you read none of the comments? Also “most neutral” lol.
Of course I read them, I got the notifications, all the comments are weird! 😭
Y… I dunno pal. If you think this silly (and not even funny) meme is somehow me praising china (which is something a lot of people assume FOR SOME REASON), well whatev…
Yes, China not bad, China good. You should like China cause they don’t do bad things to their citizens and anything you’ve heard to the contrary is just western propaganda.
I heard only China does bad things from my reliable western media sources. The west never does horrible things but if they did it was an accident.
Yeah it’s not like the West has a free press that can report on all the things that it does that is wrong or anything.
Indeed the west would never systematically censor their crimes by controlling every major news corporation which consistently gets exposed.
They also would never proscecute any journalist until the ends of the earth such as Snowden and Assagne when they make Western crimes public.
Lastly the west does not control all social media and systematically censors opinions calling out their wat crimes.
Assange and Snowden are not journalists. Snowden was a researcher who leaked government documents detailing how the government was surveiling its own citizens. Which was published in a western-based newspaper outlet. And Julian Assange is a complicated issue. The government’s after him are absolute assholes but you also weren’t censored from finding out what was done to him. And in the end he basically got a slap on the wrist. Not to mention that he himself is quite an asshole. Just listen to anybody who’s ever met the guy in person.
And neither of these people have disappeared into the dark. They make regular appearances and are reported on by Western media outlets fairly often.
And I love how you cite social media as some kind of free press. Like 90% of it’s not owned by oligarchs who have one agenda and that is to gather up every ounce of money and power they can get their hands on. That’s why they let misinformation run rampant on their own sites. Obfuscation is the best way to counter truth.
Yes yes and all the Uyghurs are terrorists and Russia is conducting a special operation in Ukraine. Thank you for your linguistic nonsense to deny your governments censorship.
And neither of these people have disappeared into the dark. They make regular appearances and are reported on by Western media outlets fairly often.
Only proscecuted for their entire life for the crime of journalism. It is truly pointless to point out the hypocrisy of Western censorship to those who believe in the myth. No matter the amount of evidence they will deny everything.
It’s just another cold war, history books will discuss it as such.
Exactly 👏👏
You’re gonna lose it op when you find out how many big video games are owned (wholey or partly) by tencent
I… Already know, and I didn’t lose anything (though, they mostly only buy actions and companies, Which is a “thing” Microsoft also does).
There really is no justification to simp for any country/government. They are all pretty terrible and genocidal.
Nationalism, and especially jingoism, are very dangerous indeed.
As we all know, there has never been any chinese app trending in the US. This because people hate the Chinese and everything they touch /s
Wow, that makes no point. Neat.
china is an entire economy based on intellectual property thievery and human slavery. the ccp are evil, and dangerous to all of humanity. go try your bullshit someplace else.
It’s just a meme, fella. Chill out.
I mean, the message of your meme is calling out people who have these biases. I am not surprised those people jumped to defend them.
FINALLY, SOMEONE GETS IT. THANK YOU 😭
I’m sorry, “entire economy” based on “human slavery”? That’s absurd. Yes the CCP abuses the fuck out of the Uighurs and it’s awful, but this is insane hyperbole.
The US also uses slavery, very literally, very out in the open and doesn’t hide it to the point that the details are fuzzy and unclear.
It does it both very directly via prison inmates being used for labour for peanuts against their will by corporations in agreement with corpos that run their prisons and in the less direct way where the fed and state governments don’t do shit about/give subsidies to farmers that hoover up disenfranchised illegals to stack em and pack em in sheds so they can work their fields for fuck all.
Both of those are such mainstream facts there’s even a John Oliver episode about both topics from years ago.
Would you say the “entire economy” of the US is based on “human slavery”?
I doubt it.
Not to mention you bring that up alongside “intellectual property thievery”, are those two really of even similar magnitude? Surely “human slavery” is a bit more serious than downloading a picture of mickey mouse off Google images, nah?
you really really are that unaware of the pay, living and working conditions of the average chinese factory worker. jfc.
protip: check out all the downvotes. lol. the ccp are rife on lemmy now. be aware, they are among us, attempting to subvert and promote their bullshit propganda. the chinese ccp can fuck off into the sun.
The CCP isn’t ripe, you’re just spreading western propaganda and severely misinforned.
Do enlighten me then?
From a quick Google search, the average (mean, presumably) salary for a Chinese manufacturing worker in Shenzen is CNY 47 per hour, which is only £5.21 and seems very low.
However, per Wise, the average 1-bedroom apartment in Shenzen outside the city centre is approximately CNY 2,900 or CNY 5,400 in the city centre.
At CNY 8,225 per month, which is far below average for the city (CNY ~12,000), even average rent is quite affordable.
In China, minimum wage is set by region, so Shenzen’s minimum wage is 2,360 per month, which is still 81% of the average rent.
Not great pay at all obviously, especially the minimum wage, but I don’t think it’s any more “slavery” than anywhere else really?
I picked Shenzen because as far as I understand it, it’s kind of manufacturing hub. Half the things I own are prolly made in Shenzen I noticed, and I don’t shop at any Chinese shops (Temu, wish, AliExpress, etc.) nor Amazon.
I’ve taken the figures from here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_China
https://wise.com/gb/cost-of-living/china/shenzhen
https://www.erieri.com/salary/job/manufacturing-worker/china/shenzhen
I’m unsure about the quality of the sources and there is probably better data, plus I’d prefer median figures by age group and whether it’s for full-time/part-time and to balance that with an unemployment rate (and preferably not a bullshit stat that excludes people on benefits etc). That would give us a bit more of an actual indication.
I’m happy to be educated.
Intellectual property is bullshit
Ah, so what is the incentive to develop complex things when anyone can just copy it?
How does open source software exist then? Lemmy? Mastodon? Linux?
Just because intellectual property can be voluntarily relinquished to great effect doesn’t mean the option to retain it should be abolished.
But that is not the point the other comment was making. It said that there is no incentive to create something and innovate if anyone can just copy it, and the whole FLOSS movement is a prove that is not the case. Same thing with the argument against UBI that would remove the insentive for people to work.
You can have other justification for IP, but that was the one the commenter gave and it is empirically false.
What is the incentive to create and innovate FOSS? Altruism? I’m genuinely asking. Maybe I don’t know enough about the movement.
People like to make stuff for themselves, to do things, to share, and feel useful. I believe it is the default state of people, you see that in families and close friends. You see people simply doing stuff for themselves and sharing the results. You can build a pool and invite over your friends and such. It is nice when you do something for yourself but that other people also enjoy.
So I think the primary reason is that people like to do things to benefit themselves, things that they want the result or that they enjoy doing the process, and then why not share, even better if other people enjoy the result. It is like cooking for your family or friends
Are you serious? Maybe so people can live better and create things that are even better and more helpful? Or is “for the betterment of humanity” not a good enough reason to do things for you? I know not everyone has the time/money/ability to be focusing all their time on helping people but this is such a depressing question.
You don’t need to have “intellectual property” to create new and complex things, or how did humanity functioned before the term (only legal, by the way) was created? All art and inventions of the past are remixes or reinventions of past works, it is communal creation, (made by human for human, in case there are those who think AI does the same, which it does not).
For more than just monitary gain?
Maybe the value of things shouldn’t be measured witha dollar sign if we want to evolve past a warhungry feudal society
You’re literally describing how US companies turn a profit.